Legality of off duty aid

[bravesfan160]

I did a quick search and didn't really find anything that helped answer my question. Sorry if this is a re-post and I didn't see it.

Anyway,

I have had this discussion with a few folks where I work at in memphis, tn.
I was wondering what the legality around providing aid to a patient while off duty.

The way that I understand it is that, in Tennessee at least, unless you act with gross negligence or malicious intent, your license won't be at rist if a patient decides to sue you for the outcome. I understand that good Samaritan law protect people who provide aid or CPR to people, but does that cover things like splints and other first responder type interventions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wyoskibum]

If your off duty...then you are a good samaritan

I was wondering what the legality around providing aid to a patient while off duty.

The way that I understand it is that, in Tennessee at least, unless you act with gross negligence or malicious intent, your license won't be at rist if a patient decides to sue you for the outcome. I understand that good Samaritan law protect people who provide aid or CPR to people, but does that cover things like splints and other first responder type interventions?

First you should look up your state statutes.

In my opinion, if you are off duty, then you have no duty to respond, therefore you are a good samaritan. As a good samaritan, you should provide basic care. ABC's, control bleeding, CPR if necessary, make sure EMS has been activated. Unless you are in a wilderness or extreme rural setting (which is a whole other can of worms!), there is no need to apply splints or perform more invasive treatments. The responding EMS crew is going to need to assess the injury and most likely will have to remove anything that you apply anyway. Keep the patient calm and reassure them and wait for the folks who have a duty to act.

 

[JPINFV]

While the language in different from state to state, as long as you aren't doing anything invasive or providing medications, it's probably not a problem. After all, even the boy scouts are taught how to splint a limb.

 

[bravesfan160]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Dominion]

Also check with your serivce. I know at the service I work at our 'onduty' protections are extended to us off duty in county only. Basically if I come up on something anywhere in a neighboring county I can provide layperson support under good samaritan. However if I am in the county my service supports I can do everything I do under my normal job (this extends to paramedics and their scope as well). HOWEVER if I do provide support I must write up a run report, obtain a run number from dispatch, and provide the details of what I did until a unit can respond. I also get paid for the time I'm on scene assisting. Including if I ride in or drive the ambulance in as assistance to the crew, I get paid for on scene time and the time it takes to return me to my vehicle.

 

[bravesfan160]

Also check with your serivce. I know at the service I work at our 'onduty' protections are extended to us off duty in county only. Basically if I come up on something anywhere in a neighboring county I can provide layperson support under good samaritan. However if I am in the county my service supports I can do everything I do under my normal job (this extends to paramedics and their scope as well). HOWEVER if I do provide support I must write up a run report, obtain a run number from dispatch, and provide the details of what I did until a unit can respond. I also get paid for the time I'm on scene assisting. Including if I ride in or drive the ambulance in as assistance to the crew, I get paid for on scene time and the time it takes to return me to my vehicle.

That's the way that I wish my service was, but they are far more interested in making money than they are patient care, so they do bare minimum in enabling us to actually do what we're trained to do.

 

[JPINFV]

That's the way that I wish my service was, but they are far more interested in making money than they are patient care, so they do bare minimum in enabling us to actually do what we're trained to do.

Look at it from the company's standpoint. If they extend your scope to include practicing while off duty then they're also liable for anything you do/don't do off duty. If you want an unrestricted license to practice medicine, go to medical school.

 

[medicdan]

Take a look at this handy-dandy sticky with Duty to Act information from every state:
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5825

 

[Akulahawk]

When I'm off-duty as a medic, I generally can provide BLS only care and not run afoul of Good Samaritan law, as long as I'm not being paid/compensated for that care. However, in Sacramento County, as long as I'm employed in some manner by a company/agency/entity that provides ALS care in Sacramento County, I can provide care within the full ALS Scope, limited by the equipment available. Generally speaking, most medics here aren't allowed to have more than an intubation kit available, but there is a process by which a medic can be authorized to carry basically everything except the morphine and midazolam or any other drug that must be witnessed/signed for.

 

[Dominion]

That's the way that I wish my service was, but they are far more interested in making money than they are patient care, so they do bare minimum in enabling us to actually do what we're trained to do.

Well the biggest reasoning for it isn't patient care, just they have a bunch of squirrels who work for them and local volly FD's and such. There are some pretty rural parts of the county as well where it's nice to have that on scene. I have gone on many a runs where and off-duty medic was onscene and a big help.

Look at it from the company's standpoint. If they extend your scope to include practicing while off duty then they're also liable for anything you do/don't do off duty. If you want an unrestricted license to practice medicine, go to medical school.

It's a big thing for our company to extend those protections and they're the only ones to do so to my knowledge (in the area atleast). We are still restrained by our on duty protocols. The biggest thing to remember for us is that if you perform and off-duty run and you DO NOT right a run form, get a run number, and perform all the steps to let the company know you did something off-duty. YOU are NOT protected. It will be if you were a layperson and the company will throw you under the bus. In fact getting all that information automatically flags you for a QA session in which you have to explain why you were there (to make sure we don't have a bunch of off-duty medics/emts jumping the radio), why you did what you did, etc. If you screw up on an off-duty call you will be flagged as unable to perform any off-duty runs and not be covered. There is a huge list of rules and regs about the whole process.

I think it's pretty nifty for our rural county. For one some response times are pretty extended for a medic. Also very frequently we just plain run out of medics and EMT's. Sometimes the call demand is too high for us and off duty first response can sometimes make a difference.

 

[FireDog19]

Also check with your serivce. I know at the service I work at our 'onduty' protections are extended to us off duty in county only. Basically if I come up on something anywhere in a neighboring county I can provide layperson support under good samaritan. However if I am in the county my service supports I can do everything I do under my normal job (this extends to paramedics and their scope as well). HOWEVER if I do provide support I must write up a run report, obtain a run number from dispatch, and provide the details of what I did until a unit can respond. I also get paid for the time I'm on scene assisting. Including if I ride in or drive the ambulance in as assistance to the crew, I get paid for on scene time and the time it takes to return me to my vehicle.

Wherever you're at I want to work there.

 

[Bullets]

In NJ, your EMT card is always active, so if you stop you could theoretically act up to your EMT scope any time

That said, you cant be held liable if you never stop (Insert appropriate meme here)

 

[FireDog19]

In NJ, your EMT card is always active, so if you stop you could theoretically act up to your EMT scope any time

That said, you cant be held liable if you never stop (Insert appropriate meme here)

Yeah, same in NC and if you're an EMT with an identifying mark on your vehicle such as a sticker and you don't stop you could be held liable for negligence, if someone notices and pushes it off coarse.

 

[reaper]

Yeah, same in NC and if you're an EMT with an identifying mark on your vehicle such as a sticker and you don't stop you could be held liable for negligence, if someone notices and pushes it off coarse.

Do you have reference to that state law?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[TransportJockey]

Yeah, same in NC and if you're an EMT with an identifying mark on your vehicle such as a sticker and you don't stop you could be held liable for negligence, if someone notices and pushes it off coarse.

Sounds like bull. They can't prove who was driving

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[Bullets]

Yeah, same in NC and if you're an EMT with an identifying mark on your vehicle such as a sticker and you don't stop you could be held liable for negligence, if someone notices and pushes it off coarse.

Oh we dont have that kind of law in NJ. There is no duty to stop for anything. However if you do, then you are an EMT as far as the state is concerned. Which to me opens us up to greater liability. Which is why i dont stop

 

[FireDog19]

Do you have reference to that state law?

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No, just heard it from an officer in my Dept a while back, but I never really cared to look it up mostly because I stop anyways and like what TransportJockey said, can't prove who was driving.

 

[FireDog19]

Try this:
N.C.G.S. 20-166b

 

[TransportJockey]

Try this:
N.C.G.S. 20-166b

That seems to say taht anyone should stop, not just EMS personnel
Not gonna hapen

 

[DrParasite]

Yeah, same in NC and if you're an EMT with an identifying mark on your vehicle such as a sticker and you don't stop you could be held liable for negligence, if someone notices and pushes it off coarse.

1) I'm now in NC, so I have to ask you to please stop spreading this nonsense.
2) There is no law that says you can be held liable for negligence; even that GS doesn't specify off duty EMTs . Your officer is spreading an old wives tale.
3) no one has EVER been sued for that, no one has ever been criminally charged anywhere with that; the logistics alone would make this an impossible case to even prove.
4) Assuming you have an EMT marking on your vehicle, does that mean the driver is an EMT? what if your spouse is driving it? what if the person ordered the sticker off the internet?
5) the only time you might have some type of a case if you are in a department vehicle, with RLS, all the equipment, with agency lettering and everything, and you fail to stop. In that case, you might find an ambulance chasing lawyer to take the case. but not in your POV with an EMT sticker on the window.