LA County BLS 911 Ambulance Mandatory Equipment

[ITBITB13]

I've looked up the various La County EMS agency policies, trying to look for an answer, with no luck.

Is it mandatory that a private 911 bls ambulance carry an AED and trauma/jump kit at all times? Would the crew/their company be subject to a fine similar to when they are inspected and found to not have their cert(s)?

I understand virtually none of the Private IFT companies stock AEDs, yet the do stock jump kits.

I have attached links to some of those policies.
http://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/dhs/206307_710.pdf
http://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/dhs/206307_413.pdf

 

[Jim37F]

I'd have to dig through LA County EMSA's website for the link, but I have seen a minimum required equipment list for BLS ambulances. Unless they've changed it since I last saw it, it applied to both 911 and IFT units (other than agency and EOA contracts, as far as the County is (officially) concerned a BLS ambulance is a BLS ambulance whether you are a PRN Ambulance doing pure IFTs, McCormick or Care that'll run both or even an LAFD 800 Rescue thats pure 911). I dont remember a "jump bag" itself being required (though everyone I know that does 911's carries them anyway) and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me that an AED is mandated (though once again, everyone I know that runs 911 has them).

I understand virtually none of the Private IFT companies stock AEDs, yet the do stock jump kits.

When I worked at PRN (granted its been a few years now) no one had any jump kits. IMO for an IFT rig an AED is more important to have than a fully stocked jump kit since you're pretty much never needing to bandage someone up after an acute trauma in that setting,but when you're transporting Grandma from the SNF to the ER for "abnormal labs" BLS and she's only complaining of vaugley "Not feeling well" and she all of a sudden codes on you....

Would the crew/their company be subject to a fine similar to when they are inspected and found to not have their cert(s)?

But yes, if they do a spot inspection at the hospital (happens once in a while) and your rig doesn't meet the minimum required equipment list (even if its because you don't have enough NRBs for example) the company will definitely get fined and the unit pulled out of service until that is rectified. I'm not sure if ypu individually as the crew member would get fined, but it wouldn't surprise me since it is your responsibilty to know ALL the rules and regs and follow them including County mandated minimum equipment. I do know I have heard of people who don't have all their certs on their person (such as not having your EMT card or CPR card on you if they do a spot inspection) being personally fined as well as their employer.

 

[ITBITB13]

I'd have to dig through LA County EMSA's website for the link, but I have seen a minimum required equipment list for BLS ambulances. Unless they've changed it since I last saw it, it applied to both 911 and IFT units (other than agency and EOA contracts, as far as the County is (officially) concerned a BLS ambulance is a BLS ambulance whether you are a PRN Ambulance doing pure IFTs, McCormick or Care that'll run both or even an LAFD 800 Rescue thats pure 911). I dont remember a "jump bag" itself being required (though everyone I know that does 911's carries them anyway) and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me that an AED is mandated (though once again, everyone I know that runs 911 has them).
When I worked at PRN (granted its been a few years now) no one had any jump kits. IMO for an IFT rig an AED is more important to have than a fully stocked jump kit since you're pretty much never needing to bandage someone up after an acute trauma in that setting,but when you're transporting Grandma from the SNF to the ER for "abnormal labs" BLS and she's only complaining of vaugley "Not feeling well" and she all of a sudden codes on you....
But yes, if they do a spot inspection at the hospital (happens once in a while) and your rig doesn't meet the minimum required equipment list (even if its because you don't have enough NRBs for example) the company will definitely get fined and the unit pulled out of service until that is rectified. I'm not sure if ypu individually as the crew member would get fined, but it wouldn't surprise me since it is your responsibilty to know ALL the rules and regs and follow them including County mandated minimum equipment. I do know I have heard of people who don't have all their certs on their person (such as not having your EMT card or CPR card on you if they do a spot inspection) being personally fined as well as their employer.

I have already done some digging around on the DHS website. Nowhere does it state that an AED and Jump kit are necessary, and that you would be okay as long as you have the required equipment, under reference No. 710.

References 412 and 413 talk about the AED service provider program. Under those references, a company must be an approved EMT AED service provider. However, neither of those references state anything in regards to an approved AED EMT service provider having to have the AEDs themselves in stock in every ambulance.

So unless someone can prove otherwise, I still believe that one can get in trouble and fined by DHS if they have one less NRB than the county requires, but can not get in a ny sort of trouble if they are not carrying an AED, even if the ambulance company itself requires it.

 

[gonefishing]

Neither a jump bag nor an aed are required.

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[hometownmedic5]

There are places in the first world where AED's aren't mandatory equipment on an ambulance?

I can't fathom that level of ignorance...

 

[gonefishing]

There are places in the first world where AED's aren't mandatory equipment on an ambulance?

I can't fathom that level of ignorance...

In LA city/ county majority of your ambulances are used instead of wheel chair vans and gurney vans. Dialysis transports and transports to wound care, doctors appointments etc. I've had alot of travels and this is the only place ive seen it. In large also due to nothing has changed since 1975 and the fire department has complete control of ems.

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[hometownmedic5]

An AED is basic, minimum equipment for a BLS ambulance. If you don't have one(along with many other things), you aren't an ambulance, you're a chair car with a stretcher instead of a wheelchair(which is I'm guessing what you mean by a gurney van, a piece of apparatus that doesn't exist in my state). I have no objection to the idea of a gurney van type of unit, but if it says ambulance, EMS, has a star of life etc on the side, it damn sure should have at least as much equipment as a fitness club or airplane.

It truly blows my mind that this sort of thing still exists.

 

[gonefishing]

An AED is basic, minimum equipment for a BLS ambulance. If you don't have one(along with many other things), you aren't an ambulance, you're a chair car with a stretcher instead of a wheelchair(which is I'm guessing what you mean by a gurney van, a piece of apparatus that doesn't exist in my state). I have no objection to the idea of a gurney van type of unit, but if it says ambulance, EMS, has a star of life etc on the side, it damn sure should have at least as much equipment as a fitness club or airplane.

It truly blows my mind that this sort of thing still exists.

LOL welcome to LA. The ambulance shares the same requirements in a way as that of an Ambulett.

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[PotatoMedic]

I have a feeling a lawyer could make a killing if someone died in an ambulance that didn't have an AED because they had a heart attack.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I have a feeling a lawyer could make a killing if someone died in an ambulance that didn't have an AED because they had a heart attack.

Not if it's not standard of care. Besides you can't swing a dead attorney in LACo without hitting a paramedic or two.

 

[gonefishing]

I have a feeling a lawyer could make a killing if someone died in an ambulance that didn't have an AED because they had a heart attack.

Well all you would have to do for defense is say "their is no requirement or set policy. The fire department is the provider in such emergencys. The transporting agency is just that, the transporting agency." LOL

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[PotatoMedic]

Well all you would have to do for defense is say "their is no requirement or set policy. The fire department is the provider in such emergencys. The transporting agency is just that, the transporting agency." LOL

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True but you can also go after the county saying they are not up to the national standard of care.

 

[gonefishing]

True but you can also go after the county saying they are not up to the national standard of care.

That's why they have the fire department lol there is a few companys in LA county and their policy is they are not allowed to do cpr. They are to stop and call 911.

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[Handsome Robb]

That's why they have the fire department lol there is a few companys in LA county and their policy is they are not allowed to do cpr. They are to stop and call 911.

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I would think this would qualify as negligence....if not on the individual definitely on the company.

I would own that company and all of its assets if my family member coded in their care and they didn't provide even the most basic level of basic life support.


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[CALEMT]

That's why they have the fire department lol there is a few companys in LA county and their policy is they are not allowed to do cpr. They are to stop and call 911.

God LACo just makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall.

 

[VentMonkey]

God LACo just makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall.

Don't say I never gave you nuthin'...

 

[Jim37F]

That's why they have the fire department lol there is a few companys in LA county and their policy is they are not allowed to do cpr. They are to stop and call 911.

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I really hope that's an urban legend...... I can't think of any companies that actually have that as policy, I've heard of some stupid stuff but not this one....but all I know for sure is that the one pure IFT only company I've worked for definitely did NOT have that as a policy.

Anyways, yeah there's a ton of ambulance companies driving around town. They have lights and sirens and EMT's and say some form of "Ambulance" on them....but yeah, are pretty much dressed up gurney vans doing hospital discharges to SNF's, Dialysis transports, etc etc. Only 5 out of the dozens (or more) private companies in the County do any 911 response. I do know every McCormick rig has an AED, I'm pretty sure the same for Care, but not sure on AMR or Schaefer, all the rest of the AmbuMedLifeCoastStarResponseRescueOne don't actually do any sort of emergency response or transport (at least at the BLS level)

 

[Kurt]

I'd have to dig through LA County EMSA's website for the link, but I have seen a minimum required equipment list for BLS ambulances. Unless they've changed it since I last saw it, it applied to both 911 and IFT units (other than agency and EOA contracts, as far as the County is (officially) concerned a BLS ambulance is a BLS ambulance whether you are a PRN Ambulance doing pure IFTs, McCormick or Care that'll run both or even an LAFD 800 Rescue thats pure 911). I dont remember a "jump bag" itself being required (though everyone I know that does 911's carries them anyway) and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me that an AED is mandated (though once again, everyone I know that runs 911 has them).
When I worked at PRN (granted its been a few years now) no one had any jump kits. IMO for an IFT rig an AED is more important to have than a fully stocked jump kit since you're pretty much never needing to bandage someone up after an acute trauma in that setting,but when you're transporting Grandma from the SNF to the ER for "abnormal labs" BLS and she's only complaining of vaugley "Not feeling well" and she all of a sudden codes on you....
But yes, if they do a spot inspection at the hospital (happens once in a while) and your rig doesn't meet the minimum required equipment list (even if its because you don't have enough NRBs for example) the company will definitely get fined and the unit pulled out of service until that is rectified. I'm not sure if ypu individually as the crew member would get fined, but it wouldn't surprise me since it is your responsibilty to know ALL the rules and regs and follow them including County mandated minimum equipment. I do know I have heard of people who don't have all their certs on their person (such as not having your EMT card or CPR card on you if they do a spot inspection) being personally fined as well as their employer.

http://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/dhs/206216_451.1a10-01-15.pdf
https://www.municode.com/library/ca...TIT7BULI_DIV2SPBU_CH7.16AM_7.16.225AMNSMEEQSU

Any questions call (562) 347-1987

 

[VentMonkey]

Any questions call (562) 347-1987

Kurt, I have a question that you may or may not be able to answer. Assuming you are involved with LA County's EMS department, which is pure speculation on my part.

Does the county EMS agency have anything against, or is it all for private paramedics being allowed to function within the 911 system so as to free up an already taxed LACoFD squad system?

 

[Kurt]

Kurt, I have a question that you may or may not be able to answer. Assuming you are involved with LA County's EMS department, which is pure speculation on my part.

Does the county EMS agency have anything against, or is it all for private paramedics being allowed to function within the 911 system so as to free up an already taxed LACoFD squad system?

I cannot offer an opinion, but will give my contact information to all who may have questions, comments or complaints about LA County Code and Prehospital Care Policy.

Kurt
Civilian Investigator
Kkunkel@DHS.LACounty.gov
ReportAmbulanceViolations@DHS.LACounty.gov
Office (562) 347-1687
Cell (213) 587-2926