I've never taken an A&P class, how much if any will this effect me as a Medic?
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ExpatMedic0
MS, NRP
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Most paramedic programs I know of (in the Pacific Northwest) require at least A&P1 or Human Biology prior to entrance. In Oregon I know we use to be required to take the entire A&P series I,II,III. However, There a few which integrate A&P within the medic course. Normally those are very "watered down" versions specific to EMS. No matter what, your gonna have to take some A&P to some extent to function as a medic.
Out of all the crap you learn many people would argue one of the most important aspects of it is A&P because its lays a basic foundation down for understanding. With out some basic understanding of it you will be a pretty crappy paramedic and will "left in the dark" on many calls. However, ignorance is bliss, plenty of stupid paramedics out there from "patch mills", and those who are dragging hose with handlebar mustaches, all practicing "meat head medicine." These guys don't think they need it because they have no clue whats really going on beyond following protocols as the word of god.
That is my 2 cents anyway
Out of all the crap you learn many people would argue one of the most important aspects of it is A&P because its lays a basic foundation down for understanding. With out some basic understanding of it you will be a pretty crappy paramedic and will "left in the dark" on many calls. However, ignorance is bliss, plenty of stupid paramedics out there from "patch mills", and those who are dragging hose with handlebar mustaches, all practicing "meat head medicine." These guys don't think they need it because they have no clue whats really going on beyond following protocols as the word of god.
That is my 2 cents anyway
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ExpatMedic0
MS, NRP
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PS: I have been waiting for a moment to post this book, I have never read it, but I had a pretty good chuckle at the cover. Maybe start with that ;-) then move on to Gray's...
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That series is awesome. My dad (retired critical care flight medic) got me a few as a gift wen I started medic school. I keep adding to my collection.
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There are many, many paramedics out there who have never taken a formal (college-level) A&P course. Probably a big majority of them, in fact. It is still not required at any of the paramedic programs in my region, that I know of.
Many of those paramedics are really good at what they do. Can they name all the cranial nerves and their functions? No. Can they tell you all the bronchopulmonary segments of the lung, or even tell you how many times the bronchi divide? Probably not. But it doesn't mean they don't do a good job of providing prehospital care. The medicine is really a fairly small part of being a good medic, IMO.
If you really want to be "the best" medic you can be, then part of what I would do is study physiology/pathophysiology and pharmacology. There are lots of "______ for Dummies" type books out there that really have everything you need to learn the basics of this stuff. The important anatomy will come with studying the physiology.
Many of those paramedics are really good at what they do. Can they name all the cranial nerves and their functions? No. Can they tell you all the bronchopulmonary segments of the lung, or even tell you how many times the bronchi divide? Probably not. But it doesn't mean they don't do a good job of providing prehospital care. The medicine is really a fairly small part of being a good medic, IMO.
If you really want to be "the best" medic you can be, then part of what I would do is study physiology/pathophysiology and pharmacology. There are lots of "______ for Dummies" type books out there that really have everything you need to learn the basics of this stuff. The important anatomy will come with studying the physiology.
Well, I guess I can say thanks for the honest reply lol. Even though it was little offensive as I'm going to be one of those "hose dragging" medics, minus the mustache
Thanks for the reply. This is more in line with what medics at my dept have to say(And the vast majority of them are strictly Medic, not suppression). I work at a very busy department, our transport time is going to be less than 10 minutes so it's a different type of "care" I suppose. I just wanted to get a fresh view on the matter from those outside of my department.
polisciaggie
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Can you be a good medic without a class, yes. Can you be the best possible medic, probably not. At least go out and buy an A&P textbook and read it.
I took A&P at an university and I don't use half the things I learned, but the half I do use makes me glad I took it.
If I ever need to know the insertion point of the tensor fascia lata, I'm golden.
I took A&P at an university and I don't use half the things I learned, but the half I do use makes me glad I took it.
If I ever need to know the insertion point of the tensor fascia lata, I'm golden.
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I pretty much echo what many of the above have said. While you can be a decent care provider as a medic without taking a formal A&P course (among others), it's a whole lot easier to become an excellent medic if you do. Anatomy isn't all that difficult, really. You really should become comfortable with the physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, and kinematics of trauma. Of these four, the most immediately important are the first 3 I listed.
Given a choice of taking A&P as separate courses vs combined, I'd much rather do the full year as a combined series because you'll learn the anatomy as you learn the physiology and how it all fits & works together. If I had to take them separately, I'd go with physiology first if it has no prerequisites. This is because you learn what the body needs at the tissue/cellular level. Pathophysiology, if offered, should teach you the body's responses to disease and injury. You learn the more abnormal stuff. Pharmacology is a very good idea anyway. While you'll learn the drugs you'll use in school, Pharm class will help you figure out what's going clinically and you'll have a much wider and deeper understanding of how drugs work. This comes in handy when you don't have much of a history but you do have a bag full of meds.
Learning the kinematics of trauma is basically learning how forces applied to the body affect it. Those of us that have a sports med background learn this very directly and very early on. We know that MOI is a very poor predictor of actual injury but if you know how to read it, you have a very good idea where to look. That's the practical effect of learning this subject.
While your department's transport time is typically 10 minutes or less (the place I interned at was similar, longest transport would be 40 minutes at worst...) you'll learn what you need (and then some) to better be able to provide care. You see, while transport may be 10 minutes or less, you'll be with that patient for at least 20, possibly a LOT longer than that.
Given a choice of taking A&P as separate courses vs combined, I'd much rather do the full year as a combined series because you'll learn the anatomy as you learn the physiology and how it all fits & works together. If I had to take them separately, I'd go with physiology first if it has no prerequisites. This is because you learn what the body needs at the tissue/cellular level. Pathophysiology, if offered, should teach you the body's responses to disease and injury. You learn the more abnormal stuff. Pharmacology is a very good idea anyway. While you'll learn the drugs you'll use in school, Pharm class will help you figure out what's going clinically and you'll have a much wider and deeper understanding of how drugs work. This comes in handy when you don't have much of a history but you do have a bag full of meds.
Learning the kinematics of trauma is basically learning how forces applied to the body affect it. Those of us that have a sports med background learn this very directly and very early on. We know that MOI is a very poor predictor of actual injury but if you know how to read it, you have a very good idea where to look. That's the practical effect of learning this subject.
While your department's transport time is typically 10 minutes or less (the place I interned at was similar, longest transport would be 40 minutes at worst...) you'll learn what you need (and then some) to better be able to provide care. You see, while transport may be 10 minutes or less, you'll be with that patient for at least 20, possibly a LOT longer than that.
You wont get much respect from hospital personnel if you don't have the jargon down (requires A&P and med term). Stupid but true. If you cant speak intellectually about the different parts of the body their trust decreases significantly even if you know the pathology perfectly. It is what it is.
wanderingmedic
RN, Paramedic
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Teach yourself some anatomy! Like others have said, having the terminology down helps with credibility, and having a solid understanding of anatomical structure helps with understanding trauma and disease processes. Bottom line: if we want to provide great patient care and advance EMS, knowing anatomy is essential. So learn anatomy!
If you don't have money or time for a college class, find a cheap used anatomy book online and an anatomy coloring book. Go through both of them on your own time. If you prefer lectures, lookup recorded lectures online. Whatever you decide to do, you are more than equipped to teach yourself some things about anatomy.
Another suggestion would be to go take an online anatomy course. I think if you do it right...online can be as good as in person (for some people). University of Phoenix offers one online, as well as a lot of other institutions. Online can be more flexible than in person, as well as cheaper if those are things that hold you back from taking a course.
If you don't have money or time for a college class, find a cheap used anatomy book online and an anatomy coloring book. Go through both of them on your own time. If you prefer lectures, lookup recorded lectures online. Whatever you decide to do, you are more than equipped to teach yourself some things about anatomy.
Another suggestion would be to go take an online anatomy course. I think if you do it right...online can be as good as in person (for some people). University of Phoenix offers one online, as well as a lot of other institutions. Online can be more flexible than in person, as well as cheaper if those are things that hold you back from taking a course.
Bearamedic
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Imo, you do need some level of a&p
Major bones, major glands, all organs, how the heart works, geographical terminology, what the liver, pancreas, and kidneys do, artery locations, airway structure, sympathetic and parasympathetic understanding, simple immunology and flora. At minimum.
Major bones, major glands, all organs, how the heart works, geographical terminology, what the liver, pancreas, and kidneys do, artery locations, airway structure, sympathetic and parasympathetic understanding, simple immunology and flora. At minimum.
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SeeNoMore
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All paramedic programs should contain formal A and P (not 2-3 weeks of cramming in the "important stuff" and "forgetting the rest because it won't matter on the streets") This should be the baseline from which we grow.
That is not reality and given the miserable state of EMS it most likely never will be.
As for your question, if you decided not to take formal classes, it is easy and cheap to get the textbooks and educate yourself. It is essential to becoming a medical professional worthy of respect.
That is not reality and given the miserable state of EMS it most likely never will be.
As for your question, if you decided not to take formal classes, it is easy and cheap to get the textbooks and educate yourself. It is essential to becoming a medical professional worthy of respect.
I think its becoming more of a requirement than it once was, as the Paramedic scope has expanded over the years. I also think its about quality control and standards.
Would you want an RN taking care of you in a hospital that never passed A&P? Not sure why Paramedic would be considered that much different. Requiring people pass 2 semesters of A&P would just add another layer to weed out people and provide a higher quality provider.
My Paramedic program required the same A&P as nursing. A couple students somehow got into the class without taking it, and were dropped from the program at the end of the semester when it was discovered they didn't have it.
Not coincidentally the 2 who never took it had the worst test scores in the class.
Would you want an RN taking care of you in a hospital that never passed A&P? Not sure why Paramedic would be considered that much different. Requiring people pass 2 semesters of A&P would just add another layer to weed out people and provide a higher quality provider.
My Paramedic program required the same A&P as nursing. A couple students somehow got into the class without taking it, and were dropped from the program at the end of the semester when it was discovered they didn't have it.
Not coincidentally the 2 who never took it had the worst test scores in the class.