It's about time! NREMT to require accreditation

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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WOW! It's about time! Only schools that offer real education, and have approved clinical sites, and have their act together, only their students will be able to test for the NREMT!! Of course all schools have the chance to prove themselves in the next 5 yrs... I bet we will see a lot less shady, piss poor training centers, and who knows maybe... yes, maybe truly educated EMT's and Paramedics...

The following press release explains it all.

NREMT Board Votes to Require Paramedic Accreditation

On November 13-14, 2007, the National Registry of EMTs Board of Directors
voted to require that applicants for national Paramedic certification
graduate from a nationally accredited educational program after December 31,
2012.

The motion was introduced in June 2007 and tabled to enable consultation
with other members of the EMS community. Following discussions with other
national EMS organizations, the board passed the motion unanimously on
November 14, 2007. The rationale for the change is based on the
recommendations in the EMS Education Agenda for the Future: A Systems
Approach as well as the Institute of Medicine (IOM) Report titled Emergency
Medical Services at the Crossroads. These two publications call for a
linkage of paramedic educational program accreditation with eligibility for
certification.

Currently, fourteen states require national accreditation of paramedic
education programs and, there are over 240 nationally accredited programs.
Most experts believe that this represents about one-half to one-third of the
active paramedic education programs in the country. The CoAEMSP is
committed to helping programs understand and meet the standards and
guidelines for accreditation, stated Randy Kuykendall, the current Chairman
of the Committee on Accreditation for EMS Educational Programs (CoAEMSP).

William E. Brown, Jr., NREMT Executive Director said We believe that the
major barrier to achieving accreditation will be institutional support. We
hope that this policy provides paramedic program directors with the leverage
to get the same resources as other allied health education programs. There
is simply no reason why any quality program cannot achieve accreditation in
the next five years.

Another concern is the number of paramedic programs that are in
"non-traditional" educational settings. Dr. George Hatch, CoAEMSP Executive
Director, stated We currently have accredited programs in all types of
locations and institutions. The CoAEMSP has a variety of mechanisms to meet
the sponsorship requirements. Virtually any type program, including
proprietary and agency based, can meet the sponsorship standard through
seeking independent institutional accreditation or collaborating with other
organizations to form a consortium.

While the EMS Education Agenda for the Future calls for educational
accreditation for all levels of EMS personnel, the IOM report recommends
requiring accreditation only at the paramedic level. The NREMT motion
affects only paramedic eligibility. Jimm Murray, NREMT Vice-Chairman (of
the Board of Directors) concludes that the current evidence supports
requiring accreditation at the paramedic level. We may revisit the issue of
accreditation at other levels at a later date.

This is an important step forward for the discipline of paramedicine,
concluded Sandy Bogucki, MD, PhD and Chairman of the NREMT Board of
Directors. Every occupational group that has evolved and gained credibility
as a profession has done so through strengthening their educational and
credentialing systems. We know that this change will be a challenge, but the
Board feels confident that accreditation will improve paramedic education
and ultimately the quality of care that patients receive in the out of
hospital setting
 
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triemal04

Forum Deputy Chief
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Allow me to repeat myself: :beerchug:

Best thing to happen to EMS in awhile. Now all they need to do is up the standards for accreditation. :beerchug:
 

reaper

Working Bum
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Good Deal.

Now they just need to fix the joke of a system they have and all will fine in the universe!
 

Alexakat

Forum Lieutenant
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This is a good first step in the right direction!
 

bstone

Forum Deputy Chief
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Interesting. Good step.
 

Asclepius

Forum Lieutenant
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Here's what I don't get. I've only recently discovered this in our relocation process. I went to a very well known university to obtain my paramedic education. I have several quantifiable years as an EMT-Intermediate. I graduated from the paramedic class and I challenged and passed the NREMT-P practical and written exam on my first attempt. NREMTP is supposed to be the gold standard of measurement, yet in everyone of my application processes for agencies around where we live now I have had to take a written exam and in one case a practical station.

Didn't I already prove myself when I took and passed the NREMTP and also graduated from a collegiate program? Why do I need to take and pass someone elses exam...already been there and done that.
 

triemal04

Forum Deputy Chief
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Here's what I don't get. I've only recently discovered this in our relocation process. I went to a very well known university to obtain my paramedic education. I have several quantifiable years as an EMT-Intermediate. I graduated from the paramedic class and I challenged and passed the NREMT-P practical and written exam on my first attempt. NREMTP is supposed to be the gold standard of measurement, yet in everyone of my application processes for agencies around where we live now I have had to take a written exam and in one case a practical station.

Didn't I already prove myself when I took and passed the NREMTP and also graduated from a collegiate program? Why do I need to take and pass someone elses exam...already been there and done that.
Well... let's count the ways.
1. NREMT-P is not a hard written test to pass.
2. NREMT-P is not a hard practical test to pass.
3. Many schools do a horrible job at teaching people to be paramedics; see 1&2.
4. People will (often) forget what they learned in paramedic school if they aren't using that knowledge.
5. Occasionally places only want to hire the best possible people; thus multiple tests and interviews to determine that person.
6. Passing a couple of dinky written tests does not make someone a good paramedic.

Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but did you really expect to just walk in to a place, toss an app' on the table and get the job? Come on, really? Generally most agencies/services aren't going to want to hire someone and then have to fire them 2 weeks later because they're an idiot with zero knowledge; testing is a way to help filter out the morons. This is especially true if they normally are hiring brand-new paramedics.

Edit: Sorry, nothing personal against you, but this pisses me off. It's part of the reason that EMS is so screwed up now; we've got these crappy tests for determining if someone is qualified to be a medic and that's it. And when a service tries to make sure that someone really is qualified and the right paramedic for them, it get's questioned? Are you kidding me? EMS is not (should not be anyway) another McJob that any bonehead can get; getting certified is only the first step towards actually working in an ambulance; the sooner that we realize that and start to embrace places that are actively trying to weed out those who have no buisness on an ambulance the better. Look at police departments, fire departments, both have an EXTENSIVE testing process because both only want the BEST people for the job. It doesn't matter what your background is, if you want to work in those areas, you better be ready to show that you really are good. The sooner we realize that and apply it to EMS the better. If you have to actually test for one service or agency, don't question it, be glad that they only want good people working for them. And don't ever think for a second that just because you have a piece of paper from the National Registry that nobody will ever question your abilities or qualifications or that you are above having to prove what kind of medic you are.
 
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Asclepius

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Well... let's count the ways.
Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but did you really expect to just walk in to a place, toss an app' on the table and get the job?
Yeah, actually I did. I didn't JUST pass the NREMT test, I also graduated from a university program. It's just silly, really. What good is the NREMTP if, as you say, it doesn't count for anything? I've proven that I know being a paramedic by testing and graduating.

Also, PD and FD, doesn't have an equivalent to the NREMT. At least not that I know of. When there is no national standard, then I would better appreciate being tested by each agency.
 
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triemal04

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Yeah, actually I did. I didn't JUST pass the NREMT test, I also graduated from a university program. It's just silly, really. What good is the NREMTP if, as you say, it doesn't count for anything? I've proven that I know being a paramedic by testing and graduating.
See #1, #2, and #5. And the edit as well.
 

Asclepius

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triemal04

Forum Deputy Chief
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I saw them...I just disagree with you.
Can you explain why? National Registry is not that hard a test to pass. Going to one school are another does not gaurentee that you actually learned anything, or retained any of that knowledge. And neither ensures that you'll be a good medic on the street. (course a test doesn't either, but it can help a bit)

Do you honestly think that it's a good thing for a brand new paramedic to be able to walk in and then head out to the street without ever having his ability/knowledge tested? Do you really think that's good for our profession?

EDIT: And the fire service has lots and lots of certifications that are recognized nationally. Police also. Still doesn't matter; you could be a Lieutenant with his Fire Officer 3 from Dept A, but if you apply at Dept B, you're still going to test with everyone else. If you're a police Sergeant from A and go to B, same thing.

DOUBLE EDIT: You really don't think a service should be looking for the best people and weeding out the idiots who should never be on the street? Sheeeeeit.
 
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Asclepius

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Can you explain why?
Yes, I can. I believe I did. Having adequately passed the requirements of the university, which also certifies that I have met requirements of the NREMT, I believe I have proven myself.

National Registry is not that hard a test to pass. Going to one school are another does not gaurentee that you actually learned anything, or retained any of that knowledge. And neither ensures that you'll be a good medic on the street. (course a test doesn't either, but it can help a bit)
I don't know why you think this test is so petty. Nearly every state in the country including the military recognizes it's achievement.

Do you honestly think that it's a good thing for a brand new paramedic to be able to walk in and then head out to the street without ever having his ability/knowledge tested? Do you really think that's good for our profession?
Yes, I think it is good for our profession. It's good enough to become a doctor or RN. They go to school for their predetermined amount of time. They put in their hours of clinical time. They take their tests and then apply for their licenses.

I think what is bad for our profession is making the process hostile. I considered it a great achievement each time I advanced through the ranks in EMS. First a basic, then an Intermediate, then a paramedic. One of the proudest moments of my life was learning that I was good enough to be certified by the NREMT. I felt so good about it, because I know it will basically take me to any state that I choose to go.

You really don't think a service should be looking for the best people and weeding out the idiots who should never be on the street? Sheeeeeit.
Yes, I think any company should look for the best people. That's what reference checks are for. That's what judging the applicants experience is for. That's what looking at the applicants educational background is for. Things like that. Not adding on more tests that demonstrate the applicant already knows his profession.
 

wolfwyndd

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This is just my personal opinion (so take it for what it is), but until we have a NATIONAL standard that's accepted by ALL 50 states in the US, it's all just one big feel good jerk off.
 

triemal04

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Yes, I can. I believe I did. Having adequately passed the requirements of the university, which also certifies that I have met requirements of the NREMT, I believe I have proven myself.
Say it again; NREMT is an easy test. Passing the course at your school doesn't ensure that you learned and retained the material. Sorry, but just doing that is NOT "proving yourself."


I don't know why you think this test is so petty. Nearly every state in the country including the military recognizes it's achievement.
Yes they do. But don't forget that NREMT tests people on the MINIMUM requirements, and is mostly used as a way to have a cert that will take you across the country and allows for a set minimum stadard for paramedics. You can't teach someone less than what they require, but you can (and many do) teach more. And the test isn't petty, it's just easy. Far to easy. And the standards are to low, but that's a whole 'nother problem. :p


Yes, I think it is good for our profession. It's good enough to become a doctor or RN. They go to school for their predetermined amount of time. They put in their hours of clinical time. They take their tests and then apply for their licenses.
Doc's and RN's go to school for a lot longer than the average medic and have a much more extensive clinical/internship, as well as how they test for their license. Apples and oranges dude. And I do believe that some RN's still have to test for their jobs. Not sure though.

I think what is bad for our profession is making the process hostile. I considered it a great achievement each time I advanced through the ranks in EMS. First a basic, then an Intermediate, then a paramedic. One of the proudest moments of my life was learning that I was good enough to be certified by the NREMT. I felt so good about it, because I know it will basically take me to any state that I choose to go.
Hostile? Ensuring that the applicant meets the basic requirements and still knows the basic material is hostile? How long have you been in this game for? Come on. Someone who passed the NREMT test 5 years ago and never worked as a medic is not the same as someone who did it 5 months ago, and they aren't the same as someone who did it 5 years ago but has been working on an ambulance for 5 years. Who knows, maybe those places recognize that NREMT is the minimum and only want people who know more than that. Good for them if that's the case.


Yes, I think any company should look for the best people. That's what reference checks are for. That's what judging the applicants experience is for. That's what looking at the applicants educational background is for. Things like that. Not adding on more tests that demonstrate the applicant already knows his profession.
How are you supposed to demonstrate that you know your profession then? Little secret, nobody likes to hire someone, train them, and then have to fire them because they don't know their stuff; waste of time and money. Reference checks are great, but only can go so far.

I still can't understand why you think that this is a bad thing. In any way, shape or form. It makes no sense.
 

Asclepius

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How are you supposed to demonstrate that you know your profession then? Little secret, nobody likes to hire someone, train them, and then have to fire them because they don't know their stuff; waste of time and money. Reference checks are great, but only can go so far.
You're right. The whole system sucks. My nearly 10 years in EMS has taught me nothing and I have no reason to be proud of my accomplishments.

Nationally accredited collegiate programs that require a signficant demonstration of education, clinical hours and proficiency of skills is not worth the paper it's written on.

No employer should judge or verify for themselves the applicants experience, education, and/or certifications.

btw, I am not debating the hours that MDs and RNs have to put in. I am merely comparing that the system is similar. Sure they do more hours, but the also have a much broader scope of practice.

btw, are you NREMT?
 

triemal04

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You're right. The whole system sucks. My nearly 10 years in EMS has taught me nothing and I have no reason to be proud of my accomplishments.

Nationally accredited collegiate programs that require a signficant demonstration of education, clinical hours and proficiency of skills is not worth the paper it's written on.

No employer should judge or verify for themselves the applicants experience, education, and/or certifications.

btw, I am not debating the hours that MDs and RNs have to put in. I am merely comparing that the system is similar. Sure they do more hours, but the also have a much broader scope of practice.

btw, are you NREMT?
Wow. That's just really sad. You say you've been in EMS for this long and 1-don't understand why this has to be done, and 2-don't want something to be done that could easily help to improve EMS. Not my problem I suppose; making someone show that they can perform proficiently is perfectly acceptable to me, especially when you consider the :censored::censored::censored::censored:e state of EMS today. But that's ok, you can be sarcastic and feel sorry for yourself all you want. Again, not my problem. What is my problem is exactly what I said in the "edit" in my first (second really) post in this thread. And I'm sorry, but the more you perpetuate the mentality of "I did this so you can't ever ask me to show that I know what I'm doing" the more you help to drag the system further down. Nice one.

RN's and Doc's are still apples and oranges when compared with EMS. The only similarity is that we are all involved in mediciene.

I've got nothing more to say that I haven't allready. Ensuring that people are qualified and live up to the standard for your service/agency...why is that wrong? How is it detrimental? How is it beneficial? Ahh...you don't want these answers anyway.

Cheers.
 

Asclepius

Forum Lieutenant
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Nice one.
Thanks, I'm glad you approve.

RN's and Doc's are still apples and oranges when compared with EMS. The only similarity is that we are all involved in mediciene.
I don't see it that way.

I've got nothing more to say that I haven't allready. Ensuring that people are qualified and live up to the standard for your service/agency...why is that wrong? How is it detrimental? How is it beneficial? Ahh...you don't want these answers anyway.
On the contrary...I already answered these questions. You and I don't see eye to eye on this and I am not interested in arguing or making this personal.

I am still curious, though, did you say you were NREMT or not?
 

Asclepius

Forum Lieutenant
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Asclepius,
Are you in the California system?
No, we recently relocated from Cincinnati area to the St. Louis area. I work, however, in Illinois. Why do you ask?
 

VentMedic

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California has a county system that even if the paramedic has a state license, each county and/or municipality establishes its own way of doing things by powers granted to them by the state of California.

For EMTs it gets even more complicated as they must apply for certification with each county even if they are state certified.
 

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