How do I make sure my school isn't an EMT-mill?

cperschke

Forum Probie
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So, first off; Hello everyone!

I'm a layperson (First Responder, AED, CPR for Healthcare certs.) looking into my options for emt schools. I am looking at getting my emt-b, but I probably want to pursue a medic program as well. Around here (phoenix, AZ) there are several EMT programs offered through different community colleges, and there are also 2 private companies that offer emt-b through emt-p. That being said One private school charges $1200 for it's emt-b, and the other charges $700... A $500 savings is huge, but I don't just want to get run through a learn nothing mill.. I'm hoping to use the emt-b to get employment as an ER Tech, or with one of the private ambulance companies out here.

Basicly I can't find any reviews or ratings system on this stuff. The cheaper school I'm looking into is at www.emsce.net . Basicly, Does anyone know anything about them? anyone in the Phoenix area?
 

Tincanfireman

Airfield Operations
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First of all, welcome to EMTLife!

There is an analogous thread here regarding EMT "boot camps" which sounds similar to this program. I quote from the EMTCE website: "The class takes 7 weekends to complete. You must attend ALL 13 days to complete the course and qualify to take the State and National EMT exams". The math works out to 13 x 9 hrs = 117 hours, so it doesn't even meet the 120 minimum, adding the fact that I highly doubt any class is going to have a nine hour day without lunches or breaks. Most methodology course I've attended recommend a 10 minute break every hour or so, plus at least a 30 minute lunch break. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the classroom instructor time that many others on this board do, but I would invite you to check out the discussion that I referenced above for thoughts regarding similar programs.
 
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ClarkKent

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When I took my EMT-B class it was at a Jr. College and I only paided $160.00 (including textbooks). Before I took this class, I asked around to see what was the best. Ask around, go to a few private amblance companies and ask them where did they go and was it worth the money. Do you homework befor you pay $1,200 for a class you can get for $100
 

ClarkKent

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Oh and welcome to the forum
 

LucidResq

Forum Deputy Chief
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Do you know anyone in EMS? If so, ask around.

I'm wary of an independent, private company offering these courses. I took my course through a hospital system (a branch of HCA) based program that was connected to a local community college. I'm not even aware of any other EMT programs out here that are not tied either to a hospital, community college or fire department.

The extra money will be well worth it. If not for the obvious factor of actually learning what you need to know, for the fact that potential employers will more than likely be aware of the adequacy and reputation of whatever program you go through.
 

LucidResq

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Another note, just compare the website of the program I attended compared the one you posted:

HealthONE EMS

Obviously I don't think one should judge an education program completely on their website, but I honestly think it should be a factor.
 

medic417

The Truth Provider
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And just because they have a high pass rate on national exam does not mean they educate, could just mean they teach the test. Look for a program that is built into a Paramedic degree program, because then at least if you change your mind your time/college credits will transfer.
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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I think that's something you can't really be positive of until it's too late and you're in the program.

If you fall into the medic mill trap, it's not hopeless. Good providers can come from mills just like bad providers can come from non mill programs. At least i hope so!

And just because they have a high pass rate on national exam does not mean they educate, could just mean they teach the test.

This is very true. I went to a school with a fantastic first run pass rate, but I wouldn't wish my classmates on my worst enemy.
 
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Double-E

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yah i'm going through a mill-style 10 week program @ 16hrs/wk for 10 wks because the local community college program filled up before registration was even open to the public :glare:

unless i want to wait till the fall to enter a program that wont even be finished until next year, this is my only option. imho semesters @ community colleges take WAY too long to complete something that can be accomplished much faster.

3-4 months @ 2 classes a week?! that's a snail's pace, especially when you're working full time to put yourself through the course...
 

whatw14578

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yah i'm going through a mill-style 10 week program @ 16hrs/wk for 10 wks because the local community college program filled up before registration was even open to the public :glare:

unless i want to wait till the fall to enter a program that wont even be finished until next year, this is my only option. imho semesters @ community colleges take WAY too long to complete something that can be accomplished much faster.

3-4 months @ 2 classes a week?! that's a snail's pace, especially when you're working full time to put yourself through the course...

um... ok? once your done your job may have you do some sort of externship. so be ready for the random Quiz or two
 

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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yah i'm going through a mill-style 10 week program @ 16hrs/wk for 10 wks because the local community college program filled up before registration was even open to the public :glare:

unless i want to wait till the fall to enter a program that wont even be finished until next year, this is my only option. imho semesters @ community colleges take WAY too long to complete something that can be accomplished much faster.

3-4 months @ 2 classes a week?! that's a snail's pace, especially when you're working full time to put yourself through the course...

Oh yeah, who want's anyone that actually would consider such things as practicing and absorbing the material. Seriously... it's all about me, not the patient...

R/r 911
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
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Without those in EMS the Excelsior program for nursing would probably not exist. As long as some EMS providers want whatever they can get with the least amount of time and effort, there will be EMT Boot Camps and Medic Mills. There will also continue to be coffee clinicals and ALS engine sleepovers. And, let's not forget all those shortcuts to skimp on actually learning math for medications.
 

MommyEMT

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I am starting this week...and my class is 2 nights a week for 4 hours a night until September. The community college does the course for a semester, 4 nights a week for 4 hours a night too. Big difference. Is one better than the other?? Although I have heard they are changing the community college one to a year long program. But that is alot of tuition.
 

Double-E

Forum Crew Member
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Oh yeah, who want's anyone that actually would consider such things as practicing and absorbing the material. Seriously... it's all about me, not the patient...

R/r 911

um...been going over the EMT-B material for a while...it all seems rather..."basic", no? :p it's not rocket science...shouldn't be too difficult to absorb...

i did my undergrad on a 10 week quarter system. didn't seem too controversial for the University of California school system...it shouldn't be for any EMS education system either :p
 

8jimi8

CFRN
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dude, do what you want, but don't poke the bears on the forum. you are just asking to get ridiculed and your thread locked!


if you don't want to be in a medic mill, go to an accredited school. That is pretty much the sum of all the educated answers you will get on this forum.

Now then, you didn't even have to start a new thread to get that advice.



now then for basic... if you rush through school, learn what you need to know for the tests and then "forget it" with the memory dump for the next test, you are going to be very sad when you get to national registry for your intermediate and they tell you to pull a random basic skill out of your ***.

Just take your time and learn. You can't memorize this stuff, you have to KNOW it. because when you are the lead medic on scene, you may have some yahoo basic who went to a 6 day program who ALSO doesn't know the beginning of what you need to do to save someone's life.
 

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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um...been going over the EMT-B material for a while...it all seems rather..."basic", no? :p it's not rocket science...shouldn't be too difficult to absorb...

i did my undergrad on a 10 week quarter system. didn't seem too controversial for the University of California school system...it shouldn't be for any EMS education system either :p

Your right, the material is basic. I know, I've been teaching the stuff for over 30 years but that is the main point; it is the foundation to build upon. There are many that have post graduate degrees; yet do poorly in EMT school. It is not due to the details of the course, but rather the ability to apply and make rationale and critical thinking skills using the information they were taught.

Yes, we both agree it definitely is not rocket science, and I have preaching that is little more than advanced first aid but unless one fully understands the objectives, then practices the skills such as blood pressures, patient assessment, basic care with repetition, then one will not master the course. It takes more than a few practice sessions, as those that do work in health care soon realize and recognize, it is never simple black & white and always gray. Each patient has a unique situation and should be handled specifically to that response.

I do find it ironic how those that consider they should be able to assume and even give an opinion on how what it should require, yet not even attended a course yet?

R/r 911
 
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LucidResq

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3-4 months @ 2 classes a week?! that's a snail's pace, especially when you're working full time to put yourself through the course...

My course was one day a week 8-9 hrs for 6 months, plus 20-30 hours of clinical rotations and a required minimum 4 hours of playing patient for other classes. Every single person in the class was either working or going to school full time, except for one woman who had 5 small children (that's a real full-time job, actually). I don't understand why that's so difficult?
 

Double-E

Forum Crew Member
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I do find it ironic how those that consider they should be able to assume and even give an opinion on how what it should require, yet not even attended a course yet?

R/r 911

heeeeey, easy with those claws buddy! :angry: i went to the class orientation...last week :lol: :p ;)
 
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