Hospital suspends over 100 employees for not getting COVID vaccine

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ffemt8978

ffemt8978

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So if the FDA slaps their stamp on it tomorrow, does your position change?

So you mean how many of these staff are remote/work from home only? Cause if they present themselves to a work facility, they interact with MANY people throughout the day, including colleagues who do interact with more patients and public than the person in question. So unless they show up in a bubble suit, pack lunch, report to their self contained negative pressure office and then exit the same way, the question of do they interact with the public or patients seems moot.
Having worked in a hospital, I know there are several employees that have no patient or public interactions...mostly in administrative and maintenance positions.
 
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ffemt8978

ffemt8978

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For FF8978 and others that say no employers put the Flu Vaccine as a requirement for employment: US Dept of Defense Medical Command: any medical worker, has to have the flu vaccine or a very good reason for not having it: documented severe allergic reaction (not just saying it makes me sick, but proof of hospitalization) or religious exemption and you better be practicing that religion and have in your records. You don't get the annual flu vaccine by a certain date, you don't come back to work.
We had an employee who was scheduled weekends, who had to drive 4 hours round trip on his own time to come into the clinic to get the vaccine to work a shift after the cutoff, because he was sent home the previous weekend
Department of Defense can get away with a lot more than most employers.
 

akflightmedic

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Having worked in a hospital, I know there are several employees that have no patient or public interactions...mostly in administrative and maintenance positions.
So they enter and exit without passing a single person, they visit no vending machines, they avoid the cafeteria, and they have zero interaction with colleagues, subordinates or superiors?? Again, this type of person should work remotely...
 

DrParasite

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Wow, someone jumped to some conclusions pretty quickly, and assumed many facts that were not in evidence.
I'm against a power fantasy where people are left to suffer and rot in the gutter because they aren't employed and can't afford basic healthcare.
I never once said we should have people suffer and rot in the gutter if they aren't employed and can't afford basic health care.
That's quite a sadistic take on consequences isn't it?
no; it's called actions have consequences. this was an avoidable infection. you CHOSE not to be vaccinated (your body, your choice, I can respect that) but due to your choices, now the company has to pay more to cover your spot while you recover. the insurance has to pay more to cover your expenses. both of these could have been avoided, but you chose to not get vaccinated. oh, none of this should be a surprise to the affected person; that would be unfair. they should be told about it, using the basis of informed consent. they know the risks, and do so anyway.
People txt and drive and if they get into an accident, we don't say... well it was THEIR FAULT so let's just leave them to die in agony in this mangled up vehicle.
first of all, you are the only one who they should die in agony. I've taken drunk drivers to the hospital after they crashed. never once did I leave them to die in agony. however, just because they are treated, doesn't mean that someone else should pay the bill. and if their insurance company denied the claim, because of the clause that said they won't cover injuries related to drunk driving, then actions have consequences, and the driver made the choice
No... we help them, because we're better than that as a society. What went so very wrong that has us thinking that taking away someone's access to health care as a punitive measure is a laudable act?
it's not punative at all. the person assumed the risk. they knew the chances and made a choice. it's no different than not paying your homeowners insurance (because you've never needed it) and then having a house fire... should the insurance company cut you a check?
This notion that basic help and healthcare is reserved for "the worthy" needs to go away, fast.
I'm not sure why you are projecting.... basic help and healthcare should be available for everyone (believe it or not, I actually support the idea of a taxpayer funded healthcare system). And I have never, ever, refused to treat a person based on their ability to pay. and if it's an emergency, you should receive treatment (ever heard of EMTALA?). but as a realist, good treatment isn't free, and preventative care (such as vaccinations) are often much more cost effective than reactionary treatments.
 

Carlos Danger

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You must be confusing me with someone else. I didn't mention a political party or politician.
I'm not confusing you with someone else. I also didn't mention any political party or politician, nor did I ascribe any political motivation to your post.

To put what I meant more succinctly: While COVID becoming heavily politicized was inevitable, an awful lot of folks have been accused of being "anti science" when their stance was really just skepticism and mistrust, which frankly was entirely rational and warranted. In some cases what was derided as the "anti science" stance turned out later to be correct.

Regardless of the topic, very few people have any real understanding of "the science", even those who are quick to accuse others of being "anti science". People choose which side of an issue to line up on based more on personal biases than anything else, and this is even true of the scientists themselves and the interventions that they recommend.
 

Kevinf

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I'm not sure why you are projecting
Your entire post screamed, "let em rot." I'm not sure how you want others to interpret "if they get Covid by not wearing a mask, they should be fired AND IMMEDIATELY LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE." Even though that isn't how it works anywhere in America (paid through the month at least, then COBRA). So therefore, that is how you desire it to work. So you've actively advocated for an even more brutal system than what we have.

Your post doesn't scream compassion to anyone. If you don't like how people read that, look inward instead of trying to shout down the person calling you out on your twisted take. The consequence for not taking covid precautions is contracting covid. Nothing more or less than that. Everything else is a societal thing, and we get to decide what those consequences are. I'd like to think we're at a point where we recognize that basic human dignity requires affordable access to modern healthcare, healthy food, and safe housing and we can keep working toward making that happen, instead of away from because "my taxes."

We also need to understand that as long as "muh freedoms!" are a talking point in this country, then people are going to do stupid things that general society preferred they didn't. Like not wear a mask during a pandemic. We either accept that burden and pay for it as society, or we're willing to mandate mask use and vaccines. If we don't mandate, that means being willing to pick up the tab when our rules as a society hurt members of our own society. Because a plague-ridden population does nobody any good.
 
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Ensihoitaja

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For FF8978 and others that say no employers put the Flu Vaccine as a requirement for employment: US Dept of Defense Medical Command: any medical worker, has to have the flu vaccine or a very good reason for not having it: documented severe allergic reaction (not just saying it makes me sick, but proof of hospitalization) or religious exemption and you better be practicing that religion and have in your records. You don't get the annual flu vaccine by a certain date, you don't come back to work.
We had an employee who was scheduled weekends, who had to drive 4 hours round trip on his own time to come into the clinic to get the vaccine to work a shift after the cutoff, because he was sent home the previous weekend
My employer (not the military) has had mandatory flu vaccination for years.
 

GMCmedic

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Apparently the lawyer for the employees was idiotic enough to compare their situation to victims of Holocaust medical experiments in Nazi concentration camps! :mad:🤬
 

mgr22

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Apparently the lawyer for the employees was idiotic enough to compare their situation to victims of Holocaust medical experiments in Nazi concentration camps! :mad:🤬
Remarkable. You'd think educated people would know better than to suggest such analogies.
 

Bullets

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What liability does a provider or an employer have if they are unvaccinated, contract COVID and pass that on to a patient who eventually dies of complications of it? What if they can prove that the patient entered the ER for a complaint, tested negative then, went upstairs for that complaint and was treated by an unvaccinated floor nurse or tech who became symptomatic a few days later after treating this patient? What if that patient then tests positive and has an adverse event?
 

DrParasite

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What liability does a provider or an employer have if they are unvaccinated, contract COVID and pass that on to a patient who eventually dies of complications of it? What if they can prove that the patient entered the ER for a complaint, tested negative then, went upstairs for that complaint and was treated by an unvaccinated floor nurse or tech who became symptomatic a few days later after treating this patient? What if that patient then tests positive and has an adverse event?
Hospital-acquired infections are a huge risk, but is COVID that much more of a liability than many of the other infections that occur?

the CDC even has a webpages with a ton of statistics on how often it occurs

 

Summit

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The solution to financially incentivize the prevention of HAI/HAC, which are regarded as avoidable: first they removed the perverse incentive where a hospital could charge profitably for the extended/additional care required to treat the hospital acquired illness. Second the government and insurance agencies said that the hospital can't even charge at all for the HAI and has to eat all of the cost associated as well as potentially getting lower quality scores that can reduce the hospital's ratings and future reimbursement rates across the board. Preventing these illnesses is vastly cheaper for the health system vs bearing the cost, not to mention ethically better.
 
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CPTSmokeEaterNREMT31

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So, I think that this borders on a company having their right to do what they want to do, are entitled to do, and a violation of employee rights and HIPAA. If an employee chooses to NOT get the vaccination, then, I think that is on them. If it were me as an administrator, I would make sure that it was noted in their file, and also there would have to be an addendum to the SOP/SOG which states that an employee who refuses to take the vaccination, then test positive for COVID19 then they simply are not entitled to the get to use any extra sick time. I personally, do not understand the whole "anti-vax" mindset, my oldest daughter is an anti-vax person, and eventually, I am going to text her and find out that line of thinking. Personally, I did a career in the Army, and you get so used to simply rolling up your sleeve and getting a shot, you don't care. I was offered it, I wrote the SOP/SOG for my department, towards my finalizing it, the Chief told me to put the COVID19 addendum in there. We are a volunteer department. You would think that our people cannot be told what to do. Personally, I am of the mindset, that if they want to get the vax, it is tracked, we have not dropped the Addendum, we made it permanent actually. Our people can refuse the vax, however, they understand that they will not receive any workman's comp if they do not get the vax, and they do not follow the established addendum protocol. We also have the same types of protocols when it comes to what members wear under their Bunker Gear and fighting wildland fires. We had an ex-member get poison oak at one time because he was not dressed out properly in his wildland gear. He was out of the game. He attempted to file workman's comp on us. Personally, I did not think it was a horrible thing, but our insurance company said he had to use his companies workman's comp first and then he could file with our insurance company.

For a company to take the thought of "suspending" personnel is not something that I would personally agree to. Make an addendum. Make sure that they understand that they cannot claim anything relating to COVID-19. However, to trample of the rights to medical care, is not something that should be allowed to happen. What next? Are they going to make the decision that my living will and DNR does not apply because they feel that everyone wants to go on living? So, I do not agree with the decision.
 

DesertMedic66

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So, I think that this borders on a company having their right to do what they want to do, are entitled to do, and a violation of employee rights and HIPAA. If an employee chooses to NOT get the vaccination, then, I think that is on them. If it were me as an administrator, I would make sure that it was noted in their file, and also there would have to be an addendum to the SOP/SOG which states that an employee who refuses to take the vaccination, then test positive for COVID19 then they simply are not entitled to the get to use any extra sick time. I personally, do not understand the whole "anti-vax" mindset, my oldest daughter is an anti-vax person, and eventually, I am going to text her and find out that line of thinking. Personally, I did a career in the Army, and you get so used to simply rolling up your sleeve and getting a shot, you don't care. I was offered it, I wrote the SOP/SOG for my department, towards my finalizing it, the Chief told me to put the COVID19 addendum in there. We are a volunteer department. You would think that our people cannot be told what to do. Personally, I am of the mindset, that if they want to get the vax, it is tracked, we have not dropped the Addendum, we made it permanent actually. Our people can refuse the vax, however, they understand that they will not receive any workman's comp if they do not get the vax, and they do not follow the established addendum protocol. We also have the same types of protocols when it comes to what members wear under their Bunker Gear and fighting wildland fires. We had an ex-member get poison oak at one time because he was not dressed out properly in his wildland gear. He was out of the game. He attempted to file workman's comp on us. Personally, I did not think it was a horrible thing, but our insurance company said he had to use his companies workman's comp first and then he could file with our insurance company.

For a company to take the thought of "suspending" personnel is not something that I would personally agree to. Make an addendum. Make sure that they understand that they cannot claim anything relating to COVID-19. However, to trample of the rights to medical care, is not something that should be allowed to happen. What next? Are they going to make the decision that my living will and DNR does not apply because they feel that everyone wants to go on living? So, I do not agree with the decision.
How is this a HIPAA violation?
 

DrParasite

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We are a volunteer department. You would think that our people cannot be told what to do.
That's actually grossly inaccurate. the only time someone volunteers is when they submit the application to join. After that, they are treated as employees of the organization, and agree to follow the rules set forth by the organization (SOPs, etc). And if they don't follow those rules, there should be consequences.
For a company to take the thought of "suspending" personnel is not something that I would personally agree to. Make an addendum. Make sure that they understand that they cannot claim anything relating to COVID-19. However, to trample of the rights to medical care, is not something that should be allowed to happen. What next? Are they going to make the decision that my living will and DNR does not apply because they feel that everyone wants to go on living? So, I do not agree with the decision.
You are comparing apples and watermelons, and using a hyperbolic example that has little factual basis., but let's follow that through: the company has a right to set forth its rules. If you don't agree with them, you are free to terminate your employment at any time. BTW there is a historical and legal president for mandating vaccines
 

DrParasite

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The judge rules on the lawsuit and commented on the comments from the attorney:
The Houston Methodist employees who filed the lawsuit likened their situation to medical experiments performed on unwilling victims in Nazi concentration camps during World War II. U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes called that comparison “reprehensible” and said claims made in the lawsuit that the vaccines are experimental and dangerous are false.

Hughes, who dismissed the lawsuit on June 12, said that if the employees didn’t like the requirement, they could go work elsewhere.

 

The Possum

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Some people cannot do these vaccines. People who are allergic to penicillin or amoxicillin like my wife. Those ingredients are inside these shots for Covid 19. I'm sure that companies mandating workers to get shots would be something that could definitely be challenged in the court of law. I did get the shot because my work site was strongly recommending it and they gave it to us for free. I took Pfizer and have not had any reactions.
 

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