Fear mongering

NomadicMedic

Pot or Kettle? Unsure.
11,794
6,492
113
There Is a fire department that is facing a staff reduction. They're posting this photo.

(Which I believe is total BS)

image.jpg
 
OP
NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

Pot or Kettle? Unsure.
11,794
6,492
113
This was my reply (which they deleted)

Looks like a typical IAFF driven campaign of a fire department trying to justify their staffing and/or existence. A high-performance/pit crew cardiac arrest can be managed with one or two paramedics and two additional EMTs. Is it nice to have extra help? Sure. The question that should be asked, is there any difference in survival to discharge by having five paramedics on scene versus one? I didn't think so. Nice try though. (In fact, there are studies that show that multiple ALS providers on a high acuity call confound the issue. But you already know that, right?)

Try two paramedics on a quick response vehicle and two EMTs on a BLS ambulance. You don't commit resources where they're not needed and you have all the hands you need for a critical call. Sending suppression equipment to a medical emergency is overkill. But when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
 

chaz90

Community Leader
Community Leader
2,735
1,270
113
Yup. Using an emotionally charged picture to appeal to an uninformed audience is low. I'm a bit surprised they went the EMS route though.

Not the first time any kind of business facing budget cuts has used underhanded tactics to try to secure funding.
 
OP
NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

Pot or Kettle? Unsure.
11,794
6,492
113
When numerous posters have pointed out that a medic with a couple of EMTs can (and do) manage an arrest just fine, they continue to spout the "well, if you'd rather have an EMT work on your mother or daughter than a team of paramedics..." rhetoric. It's just awful how this crap gets fed to the citizens.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
Community Leader
7,544
2,498
113
Link?

I enjoy that many of the role descriptions here could easily be done by an EMT or just not at all. Surprised they didn't just put up a pic of a house fire with everyone's role, at least that would be accurate.
 

Martyn

Forum Asst. Chief
619
54
28
Just put a reply on there...lets see how long it takes to get deleted lol
 

Flying

Mostly Ignorant
571
370
63

I'm sure there is something special about a paramedic education that gives one the edge in providing chest compressions and ventilations.
You know, the two things we're trying to demystify for the public so that lives are actually saved.

It's interesting how these job descriptions in the picture are exactly that, the captions are written in resume-speak.
 
Last edited:

EpiEMS

Forum Deputy Chief
3,657
1,062
113
This was my reply (which they deleted)

Looks like a typical IAFF driven campaign of a fire department trying to justify their staffing and/or existence. A high-performance/pit crew cardiac arrest can be managed with one or two paramedics and two additional EMTs. Is it nice to have extra help? Sure. The question that should be asked, is there any difference in survival to discharge by having five paramedics on scene versus one? I didn't think so. Nice try though. (In fact, there are studies that show that multiple ALS providers on a high acuity call confound the issue. But you already know that, right?)

Try two paramedics on a quick response vehicle and two EMTs on a BLS ambulance. You don't commit resources where they're not needed and you have all the hands you need for a critical call. Sending suppression equipment to a medical emergency is overkill. But when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If the IAFF ever cared about evidence, they certainly haven't shown it.

I think this is something I'll be quoting across the forums for a while: "Sending suppression equipment to a medical emergency is overkill." It's a good mantra for system redesign.
 

gonefishing

Forum Deputy Chief
1,371
411
83
I live right next door to this community. I never ever see them run a call. A bls ao program would benefit them. You can drive through this town by the blink of an eye.
 
OP
NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

Pot or Kettle? Unsure.
11,794
6,492
113
Just put a reply on there...lets see how long it takes to get deleted lol


This is what they wrote:
San Marino Firefighters' Association
Listen Martyn, those posts were deleted for two reasons: First, like your post, the others completely missed the point. Second, some of those individual's local presidents asked for their members posts to be deleted - they were an embarrassment. This photo shows what goes on during a typical full arrest. In Southern California, the majority of the firefighters are hired as medics and we simply maintain our certs as we move up through the ranks. The purpose here isn't to put EMT's down or say that they can't do any of the the jobs pictured (we were all EMT B's before we were medics). Have a little respect for your brothers in the field. Comments like yours make us all look bad. I'll leave your post up if you would like.
 

PotatoMedic

Has no idea what I'm doing.
2,560
1,384
113
I'd give up #5 because he's doing terrible chest compressions.

image-jpg.2321
And number 3 because I don't need to call a doc unless I'm wanting to terminate the code.
 

gonefishing

Forum Deputy Chief
1,371
411
83
I think ill go to the next town hall meeting since im close by and ask how Hall Ambulance and American Ambulance are able to perform so well with 2 people.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
Community Leader
7,544
2,498
113
To be clear I don't begrudge them for wanting to keep their jobs. But this is not how you do this. Show your value. The fire department's value is in preventing fire, fighting fire, and other sort of fire service (and perhaps rescue) type activities. Show them that value and why it matters, because it does.

Unless you are transporting patients or providing BLS first response in a rural area, you are not contributing anything of value to EMS.
 

gonefishing

Forum Deputy Chief
1,371
411
83
To be clear I don't begrudge them for wanting to keep their jobs. But this is not how you do this. Show your value. The fire department's value is in preventing fire, fighting fire, and other sort of fire service (and perhaps rescue) type activities. Show them that value and why it matters, because it does.

Unless you are transporting patients or providing BLS first response in a rural area, you are not contributing anything of value to EMS.
Just a note, theres a stemi/mi/stroke, edap hospital 5 minutes away oh and a level 2 trauma, level 3 nicu about 8 minutes the other direction.
 

Top