Face sheet

taxidriver

Forum Crew Member
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I just have a quick question about something that's been bugging me for some of you that may be familiar with Private EMS billing. We were dispatched priority one to a 911 call. After everything was said and done I left the face sheet from the hospital on the stretcher and it must've flew away. I just now realized this and was curious how big of a deal it is to not turn in a face sheet for a run. Is it something that jobs get lost over or an easy fix?
 

TransportJockey

Forum Chief
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Completely up to your service. We must put an MRN in our epcr's, but the facesheets are not required to be turned in
 

Carlos Danger

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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Your service needs patient (and if possible, insurance) info in order to bill. The face sheet generally contains that info.

If your employer doesn't have the info they need to bill, they lose revenue. That isn't good for anyone.

Like any other policy, some employers enforce more strictly than others.
 

Gurby

Forum Asst. Chief
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Definitely not something that jobs get lost over. Especially for 911, it's often not even possible to get info (or accurate info). At my job, every morning the hospital would send a packet of documentation for patients brought in by us the previous day.

Maybe the more troubling thing is the potential HIPAA violation and potential for identity theft from a face sheet that blows away in the wind. Probably not a big deal, but be more careful next time.
 
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taxidriver

Forum Crew Member
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8
Yeah I'm aware it was a huge screw up. We just got another call as soon as we cleared and it just skipped my mind. All of the information was on my run report so they should be able to get a hold of it. Good thing about making this mistake is I'll never make it again.
 

hometownmedic5

Forum Asst. Chief
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Any company that will fire you over one missing mednec/face sheet(or otherwise unbillable call) is a company I wouldn't want to work for; so being discharged would be inconvenient in the short term, it would be a positive in the long term IMO. Mistakes happen. Maybe you get written up, maybe you even lose a day(although for a first infraction I still think thats a stiff penalty); but you don't get fired over one paperwork mistake. Make a habit of it and it becomes a different discussion.

At my company, our epcr has fields for everything(or nearly everything) that would be on a face sheet. If you type all of it in, you can shred the face sheet. Or you can scan and attach it(we have scanners in every ambulance, some of them even work). There is a progressive discipline system for failing to collect the required information. Bottom line is, if you generate billable reports, they don't make a big deal about the path you took to get there and if you don't, they don't have a lot of patience for your stories about why.
 

Jim37F

Forum Deputy Chief
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At my last job, pretty much all our hospitals stopped giving us face sheets, don't even ask for one, you won't get it.

At least hospital I heard (through the grapevine rumor mill) that it was because they had found a facesheet or two (or 10) in the ambulance parking area....i.e. it blows off a gurney or out the open window and crews either didn't notice/didn't care and the hospital said "HIPAA" in response to the sheet being on the ground in the biblically accessible area....but that was the rumor mill reason I heard (Though plausible IMO) for one out of a dozen or so different hospitals that wouldn't give us face sheets so IDK. Kaiser would give them, you just had to ask...but as everything else became electronic that became one of the only paper documents left we'd have to keep track of and log and turn in, so a lot of guys simply stopped asking Kaiser for facesheets....unless we couldn't get all the patient info from the patient/family and they (Kaiser) had it then it was nice.

As far as documentation without a face sheet? Simple, we asked the patient themselves! We'd often just ask to see their ID, and 9 times out of 10 we'd then copy the info off of their drivers license. Otherwise we ask the patient (or family), we'd get name, birthday, and phone number were critical must have fields, address was easy enough to get....health insurance info, most people could tell you if they had it and who it was (or that no they didn't have insurance...) fortunately the number wasn't critical, and if they happened to have the card available, perfect. Otherwise billing got to deal with it. I've had a couple patients where we treated and transported Jon Doe, unknown birthday, estimated age, unknown address, phone, and, insurance info, pt unable to provide info due to the fact I'm BVM'ing him on the way to the trauma center after Pt was found down in the roadway after being hot by a car.....

We'd get the MRN (all patients, whether it was a John Doe or someone we got every box filled)....required to clear the hospital and go back in service, even with calls pending...we were also supposed to get the name of the Attending Physician for the pt, supposedly for MediCare/MediCal. Sometimes that was easy, it was the guy/gal who you have the report to and signed the paperwork, otherwise I asked the nurse, and sometimes Dr "None Assigned Yet at time of transfer of care" worked at quite a few of my hospitals lol.

Long, somewhat rambling story short, your company will have different policies regarding face sheets than mine did, best to ask your Supervisor, but chances are your hardly the only one to not get one, highly unlikely you'll get fired for that (unless you chronically don't have them and have been councelled in the past about it). Just make sure you have sufficient info from the pt themselves on your run form that billing can still do their job and you'll be fine. But yeah, just don't make a habit of losing the facesheet.
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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Call the hospital and ask the ER secretary to fax one to you.
 

Bullets

Forum Knucklehead
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We just get socials, as long as i have a SSN then i can bill
 

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