EMS in riot scenario

OnceAnEMT

Forum Asst. Chief
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Before I start, I just want to clarify that a "riot scenario" in this context means a scenario in which there are emergency personnel wearing "riot gear". "Riot police" are police officers wearing "riot gear". This thread is about the operations of EMS in that scenario.

Below is a Ruptly video from Charlotte on the 2nd night of protests. It covers the before, during, and after the scene of a non-officer involved shooting. It is graphic.

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For those not interested in the video, it is during a very intense part of the protest. While the cameraman is near one of the lines of riot police, a gun shot is heard seemingly near. Bystanders surround the victim, time lapses, and a clip starting at 0:43 shows multiple individuals wearing riot helmet/masks and bulletproof vests stamped very clearly with a white-on-red "Fire Department" patch on the back. The patient has head blocks and appears to be on a backboard as they are carried through the crowd. Individual riot police officers are then seen keeping people away from the carrying party.

There has been a few stories spurring threads regarding active shooter scenarios, but the majority of those have been in a structure or otherwise confined space. This situation stands apart in that it is an open area with a large amount of people, an unknown number of which have expressed malicious intentions (exhibited by objects thrown, fires set, theft, etc.)

I've got a few questions. It seemed that there were Police among the squad of Fire that retrieved the patient. Why not send just Fire? Why not send just Police? Why not send Police in with Fire patches? Is the latter unethical?

I'm glad to see the team appears to have made it out of the crowd unscathed, but it was certainly a risk to be taken. I have absolutely no experience responding to a scene involving large crowds that include individuals with malicious intentions. Those of you that do, do you find that a path is generally made for first responders, no matter the patch they wear? If riot gear is necessary, wear is the line drawn for non-LEOs?

I believe it was in the recent Ferguson protests that EMS was actually ordered to wear their white uniforms as opposed to navy or black uniforms to visually separate themselves from LE. At this same incident there were videos of victims being brought to the police lines then received, as opposed to personnel attempting to retrieve them from the crowd. Perhaps this was because first responders weren't aware of victims within the crowd to retrieve them anyway.

Is anyone stepping up riot response training? Are crews getting helmets/face shields in addition to vests now?
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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1) Riots are unsafe scenes. EMS should not be anywhere near unsafe scenes.

That all being said, people do get hurt during riots. I saw the same pictures you did, and couldn't believe the FD was wearing riot gear. Why not just send fire? well it's an unsafe scene, PD should be escorting Fire to get the patient, or even better, PD retrieves the injured and brings them behind the line of police officers to the waiting EMS crew.

2) putting PD is FD or EMS uniforms is generally a bad idea. PD has their job: enforce the law and ensure security. FD and EMS have their roles, which aren't law enforcement or security. I'd rather have PD get the victims, while dressed in riot gear that say PD, vs putting them in FD or EMS uniforms. where they might be forced to do law enforcement dressed as an EMT. Can you imagine the headlines if a cop shoots someone (justifiably) while dressed as an EMT during a riot?

3) Riots are chaotic by their very nature. Very high probability of injury. Just look at how many Charlotte officers were injured during the past few nights. By keeping that line, and having the victims be brought to line, and then placed behind, there is a much lower chance of injury.

You will NEVER see me going into the middle of a riot to assist an injured victim, at least not without several member of law enforcement coming as my escort. It is much safe for all public safety members for the injured to be brought to the line of police, vs having the police break that line and go into the riot to retrieve someone
 

dutemplar

Forum Captain
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The best place for Fire & EMS at large riots (i.e.: Baltimore last year) - back at the station making coffee and snack for the cops. Or running a charged deck gun at full pressure using the full set of stacked tips (why yes, I'm old school, why do you ask?) But I digress...

Far better to use cops with some first aid/EMT/TECC training to extricate behind the front lines where escorted EMS may receive. If I need full body armor, I also need at least a carbine and sidearm. That's an integral part of the safety equipment. Yes, there may be a time to "turtle" forward surrounded by a two dozen cops using the old Roman Testudo formation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation

Testudo_formation.jpg


Side note: Molotov cocktails and testudos are not a good combination.
 

WolfmanHarris

Forum Asst. Chief
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Toronto Paramedic Services not only has the usual Tactical medic team but has also integrated some Paramedics into the Police Public Order Unit. I'm not intimately familiar with how they operate but I know they're issued protective gear and train with PD to better coordinate advancing with them to retrieve a patient and bring them back behind the line into the warm zone.
 
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