EMS and concealed carry....

[SSwain]

Wisconsin will be enacting a concealed carry law Nov 1. There is a lot of scenarios that are being thrown about regarding when, where, who and so forth...

A local fire chief went on record (in the paper) with the following comment.

"(Fire Chief) said another aspect of CCW that could impact his department is the possibility of weapons possessed by people needing treatment by paramedics.
"If somebody has a weapon, we would not transport (the patient to a hospital)," he said. "The police would work with us to secure the weapon. We don't want to be worrying about an accidental discharge in the ambulance."
"Our thought is ... we don't want safety at risk," he said.

Essentially, what he just told the populace, was he will discriminate against those who can LEGALLY carry a firearm...possibly to the detriment of that person's health.

Being that I am still in training for my EMTB, I don't have first hand experience with this situation...for the most part, not many in WI do either.

How does the other 48 states that allow CCW deal with a concealed carry?

 

[SSwain]

EMS and Concealed Carry

I posted this in the Lounge...but realized I might get more answers here...so, Sorry for the duplicate postings.

Wisconsin will be enacting a concealed carry law Nov 1. There is a lot of scenarios that are being thrown about regarding when, where, who and so forth...

A local fire chief went on record (in the paper) with the following comment.

"(Fire Chief) said another aspect of CCW that could impact his department is the possibility of weapons possessed by people needing treatment by paramedics.
"If somebody has a weapon, we would not transport (the patient to a hospital)," he said. "The police would work with us to secure the weapon. We don't want to be worrying about an accidental discharge in the ambulance."
"Our thought is ... we don't want safety at risk," he said.

Essentially, what he just told the populace, was he will discriminate against those who can LEGALLY carry a firearm...possibly to the detriment of that person's health.

Being that I am still in training for my EMTB, I don't have first hand experience with this situation...for the most part, not many in WI do either.

How does the other 48 states that allow CCW deal with a concealed carry?

 

[abckidsmom]

I posted this in the Lounge...but realized I might get more answers here...so, Sorry for the duplicate postings.

Wisconsin will be enacting a concealed carry law Nov 1. There is a lot of scenarios that are being thrown about regarding when, where, who and so forth...

A local fire chief went on record (in the paper) with the following comment.

"(Fire Chief) said another aspect of CCW that could impact his department is the possibility of weapons possessed by people needing treatment by paramedics.
"If somebody has a weapon, we would not transport (the patient to a hospital)," he said. "The police would work with us to secure the weapon. We don't want to be worrying about an accidental discharge in the ambulance."
"Our thought is ... we don't want safety at risk," he said.

Essentially, what he just told the populace, was he will discriminate against those who can LEGALLY carry a firearm...possibly to the detriment of that person's health.

Being that I am still in training for my EMTB, I don't have first hand experience with this situation...for the most part, not many in WI do either.

How does the other 48 states that allow CCW deal with a concealed carry?

In 17 years, in a rural area where it is so common for people to be carrying, I have never had a patient that is carrying. There have been several times where there were loaded weapons on the coffee table or hanging on a nail over the chair the patient is sitting in.

 

[phideux]

I have been a weapons instructor for 17yrs, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". A gun does not go off by itself, by accident. It requires some sort of human intervention.

I've had one patient admit to me that they were carrying(concealed,legally), I was able to, with his OK and cooperation, remove his weapon, clear it before getting in the ambulance, and give it to hospital security.

Had another one sort of the same situation, where we obtained the weapon and turned it over to the spouse before leaving the scene.

Had another one where we found one being carried illegally by a local wanna-be banger, this one was found during a rapid trauma assessment, and turned over to PD.

All situations are different, there are alot of law abiding gun carriers out there, don't freak out if you come across a weapon, if you don't know how to handle weapons, don't remove them from the patient, get someone that knows how to handle them. Like I said before there is no such thing as "accidental discharges", but there are "negligent discharges" from inexperienced people handling/removing weapons.

 

[Steam Engine]

I don't necessarily see a problem with the Chief's opinion. Legally armed individuals are banned from carrying within a number of other government-owned properties, so I don't see how a government-owned ambulance should be any different. Plus, most hospitals expressly ban weapons as well, making it that more difficult to hand off the patient on arrival.

Personally, I've never run into this situation myself. If we were called to the pt.'s residence, I would encourage them to secure the weapon there before transport. Otherwise, I would bring in PD.

 

[SSwain]

I guess I could clarify...
I am an avid shooter, some IDPA matches...been around firearms all my life.
I am not freaked out about guns like many people are.

My concern was two fold...
1) Did the Chief open himself up to potential lawsuits?
2) if a pt is unconscious...does an EMT have a legal right to remove pt's sidearm?(if necessary)

Chain of posession...documentation etc...

 

[Steam Engine]

I guess I could clarify...
I am an avid shooter, some IDPA matches...been around firearms all my life.
I am not freaked out about guns like many people are.

My concern was two fold...
1) Did the Chief open himself up to potential lawsuits?
2) if a pt is unconscious...does an EMT have a legal right to remove pt's sidearm?(if necessary)

Chain of posession...documentation etc...

1. Perhaps, but since he could argue that a pt.'s weapon interfered with scene safety, I don't see them getting too far.

2. No idea...I'm curious myself.

 

[JPINFV]

Would the ambulance delay transport for a police officer until another officer came to pick up the patient's service firearm?

If yes, easy lawsuit.

If no, I'm not sure.

 

[VCEMT]

More Liberal whining from a gun lover? Yes, Liberal whining. That's how I see gun lovers when they complain about any sort of gun control. Bunch of whiney little babies. I inherited a couple of my grandfather's guns, I have them stored in a locked case in my garage. Have I ever used them? A few times.

As for guns in my rig, they only guns getting in my rig are my two pythons and PD's sidearm. The amount of people that are legally allowed to carry a weapon are outweighed by those who are not. Quite frankly I think the person with training is more deadly than some dumbass homie holding. Why? Because, a trained person can aim better.

 

[ArcticKat]

:deadhorse:

Check this thread. I found it using the search function.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=26041&highlight=concealed+weapons

I guess I could clarify...
I am an avid shooter, some IDPA matches...been around firearms all my life.

That much was evident from your first post.

It really doesn't matter where you post your threads here. People will still see them and respond.

 

[JPINFV]

It really doesn't matter where you post your threads here. People will still see them and respond.

Yep, the "New Posts" link doesn't discriminate.

 

[epipusher]

In Indiana it is not uncommon for us to encounter a patient with a concealed weapon. Most of them legally. If police are on scene they will give the patient the option of leaving it in their house, or in the case of a traffic accident, will take it into their possession for them to pick up from the police department.

 

[Fish]

I posted this in the Lounge...but realized I might get more answers here...so, Sorry for the duplicate postings.

Wisconsin will be enacting a concealed carry law Nov 1. There is a lot of scenarios that are being thrown about regarding when, where, who and so forth...

A local fire chief went on record (in the paper) with the following comment.

"(Fire Chief) said another aspect of CCW that could impact his department is the possibility of weapons possessed by people needing treatment by paramedics.
"If somebody has a weapon, we would not transport (the patient to a hospital)," he said. "The police would work with us to secure the weapon. We don't want to be worrying about an accidental discharge in the ambulance."
"Our thought is ... we don't want safety at risk," he said.

Essentially, what he just told the populace, was he will discriminate against those who can LEGALLY carry a firearm...possibly to the detriment of that person's health.

Being that I am still in training for my EMTB, I don't have first hand experience with this situation...for the most part, not many in WI do either.

How does the other 48 states that allow CCW deal with a concealed carry?

I know in Tactical and Military EMS part of your taught assesment strategy is to check for weapons, if a patient becomes altered they might view you as the enemy instead of the helper and attempt to turn that weapon on you. And good luck trying to wrestle a gun away from a Tactical Operator or a Partolmen without them winning!

 

[RocketMedic]

I try and get the patient to leave them at home (if possible), with an appropriate friend or family member, or (worst-case) remove it and store it seperately, turn it over to PD or security at the hospital. With the patient's cooperation, I'm not afraid of weapons- they're tools.

 

[AirborneEMT]

I posted this in the Lounge...but realized I might get more answers here...so, Sorry for the duplicate postings.

Wisconsin will be enacting a concealed carry law Nov 1. There is a lot of scenarios that are being thrown about regarding when, where, who and so forth...

A local fire chief went on record (in the paper) with the following comment.

"(Fire Chief) said another aspect of CCW that could impact his department is the possibility of weapons possessed by people needing treatment by paramedics.
"If somebody has a weapon, we would not transport (the patient to a hospital)," he said. "The police would work with us to secure the weapon. We don't want to be worrying about an accidental discharge in the ambulance."
"Our thought is ... we don't want safety at risk," he said.

Essentially, what he just told the populace, was he will discriminate against those who can LEGALLY carry a firearm...possibly to the detriment of that person's health.

Being that I am still in training for my EMTB, I don't have first hand experience with this situation...for the most part, not many in WI do either.

How does the other 48 states that allow CCW deal with a concealed carry?

Been an EMT in California for 5 years now. Never transported a CCW holder. On the other hand, I have been a CCW holder (not at work, obviously), and have no issues with them.

When I transport someone, if they're A&O enough to make their own decisions, I recommend that they leave anything and everything that they don't want to lose in the ER at home/in their car/with a family member.

Don't bring your personal stuff in my rig. I'm not gonna guarantee that you won't lose it at the hospital.

That's my mantra. I would doubly advise it for weapons, because while I personally approve of legal Concealed Carry by private citizens, there are a ton of folks in the ER who are, for lack of a better term, highly-strung liberal hippie wackos, and I would advise my patient against putting themselves in an adversarial position with them.

: )

 

[SSwain]

... for lack of a better term, highly-strung liberal hippie wackos, ....

Nope...I think you nailed it there.

 

[Fish]

Aren't Firearms illegal in Hospitals anyway? They have those stick you gun in here and fire to be sure it is cleared rubber and metal things outside of the ERs.

The only guns allowed in this Ambulance are the 19inch ones strapped to my arms, buwahahahahaha!

 

[JPINFV]

If the only way to can clear a firearm is by pointing it down a tube and pulling a trigger, then you have no business operating a firearm.

 

[Fish]

If the only way to can clear a firearm is by pointing it down a tube and pulling a trigger, then you have no business operating a firearm.

They make you point it down the tube while you clear it. I typed that out wrong, they don't just stick the gun in and shoot, they stick the gun in and clear it. It is a safety measure incase the gun dischargers. I do not carry a gun when I am going to a Hosp. or at work, so this does not effect me.

 

[HotelCo]

Aren't Firearms illegal in Hospitals anyway? They have those stick you gun in here and fire to be sure it is cleared rubber and metal things outside of the ERs.

The only guns allowed in this Ambulance are the 19inch ones strapped to my arms, buwahahahahaha!

In Michigan a person with a CPL can openly carry their firearm into all Criminal Empowerment Zones (er, Pistol Free Zones. Sorry, I get the terminology confused ). The only exception being courts. And secured areas of police stations (in practice it's not going to happen). I have, however, openly carried my firearm while filling out paperwork at the police station and city hall.