Dodging Calls.

[MedicPrincess]

Do you make a habit of dodging calls?

My regular partner and I don't. If a call comes in and we are closer, we get on the radio and tell dispatch. We don't "mis-state" our location when dispatch calls us. If we are clearing a call, and another truck in responding to a call that we are closer to, we will get back in service, and let dispatch know. We just don't do it.

My partner was off yesterday. And the person covering her from 1900-0700 does dodge as many as she can. It was really uncomfortable working with her. At 0100, dispatch toned a truck for a BLS transfer from the hospital to a nursing home ACROSS THE STREET from the hospital. We were sitting at the hospital clearing a call. I picked up the radio and told them we would do it (no sense in the other unit getting out of bed, driving across town, to go across the street...we could have it done before they got to the hospital). She was livid. Wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the shift. Makes no sense. As the medic on a BLS transfer, all she has to do is sit her butt in the drivers seat and drive. The EMT does everything, including the report.

As we were clearing that transfer, a breathing difficulty call came out 1 block away. She grabbed the mic for the radio, my radio, and our Nextel. She said she knows that person, they are a regular, and she isn't really having breathing difficulty (apparently, shes psychic too).

Very Uncomfortable. And not uncommon for the other two shifts. Our shift commander won't tolerate it. He has no problem issueing counselings -verbal or written- for it.

Is this a problem everywhere? Do you guys do it?

 

[Chimpie]

Forgive my forgetfulness, but you work for a private service right?

If so, you probably saved the company money, probably even made some money for the company, by doing the transfer. You saved gas by taking it since the other rig would have had to drive over to the hospital. You were there already. The other rig could have had an accident, costing the company money. You probably helped having both rigs back in service quicker by taking the call.

You saved the company money, and that, in turn, could mean future bonuses, raises, better equipment, etc. if others did the same.

 

[HFD EMS]

I dont dodge calls, the way i look at it people depend on us everyday in our line of work and seconds count and if your close, then your better be responding because thats your job thats what you are paid to do. Dont be lazy about it or get out. As you can see i am very passionate about my job and i like it when PROFESSIONALS take their job serious. However that doesnt always seem to be the case.

 

[ffemt8978]

We have a similar problem here on our vollie service.

People definately pick and choose which type of calls they will respond to. A patient transfer from a clinic or a sick person at 0200 in the morning, nobody seems to be around. A two car MVA with ejection and everyone in the department seems to show up.

Personally, I respond to as many calls as I can but understand that not everyone can do that.

 

[disassociative]

The volunteer service here is the same way; you could go to 9-10
"medicals" a day within abt 1 mile of many of the responder's houses,
and you will not see one of them. However, when a 10-46 Wreck(with injury)
is called: you have 4 districts sirens blazing. I am talking districts 15 miles
away when the ambulance service is abt 1 mile from the accident.

 

[MMiz]

I've only had one partner (out of 20+) that would dodge calls. We're dispatched via GPS so there really isn't a chance to dodge them, but he'd find a way.

I can't stand people that dodge calls or make others work harder because of their lazy ***. I'm not a huge fan of lazy partners, but thankfully I've only had a few.

 

[Wingnut]

I don't see the point of it, I mean isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? My partner and I were talking about this today as a matter of fact. Dispatch asked us if we were closer to a call than another unit, and we weren't but we both felt bad for not taking it. Whether we felt bad about it or not, it was in the pt's best interest that we let the other unit take it (they were MUCH closer than we were). I've had 2 or 3 partners that do that and it's really irritating. They weren't picky about the call they just avoided any call they could. And on average we probably run about 5 calls a day at most of our stations, so it's not like we're busy as hell and want a break either.


As usual I don't get it.

 

[fyrdog]

I have a partner that loves to jump calls. I was finishing up an assessment of a patient that was going to refuse when said partner runs in the room and says that we have to go to a MVA up the street because we are the nearest unit.

Now I don't have a signature and was in the processes of making it an informed refusal. I was trying to get the patient to go because she was still complaining of dizziness and called EMS because she thought she was going to pass out. Now they patient thinks we have this bad car crash to go to and she doesn't want to tie us up for her "minor" problem.

As I get to the car (bus) my partner tells me she took the call from another unit because she thought we were closer. Turns out up the street is a good 4 miles , 1 mile past the unit that was originally dispatched.

Ends up 3 minutes wasted finding me to tell me we have another cal and putting equipment away, 6 minutes to get 3 miles where the other unit was. 2 minutes to go from there to the call. so a total of 9 wasted minutes to jump a call someone else was supposed to go to and would have been there in 2 minutes.

I wont jump on a call unless I am sure I am closer, which I will do. I dont always ask where the other unit is, it's dispatch's job to know where everyone is.

Sounds like maybe I'm burnt but I have found that execpt on the rare occasion, the other unit is just asd close.

 

[MMiz]

fyrdog,

Good points! I know that dispatch takes into conderation the closet unit with traffic, and turn-arounds considered.

I've only once "jumped" a call. We have a radio for PD and one for dispatch in our units. PD requested additional units, but dispatch would have no way to know because they don't have PD radios. We diverted from our run to a granny stacker and were definitely needed. That was the scariest call of my career.

I usually trust dispatch though, even if I complain all the time. It's EMS!

 

[MedicPrincess]

Forgive my forgetfulness, but you work for a private service right?

Nope, its a County Service.

 

[Jon]

Princess - I would have no problem taking the resp. distress call - the BLS Transfer? Well... I might not do that... simply because it is a lizard-slinging run

At the busy vollie squad, we have 2-3 crews on, and from 6a-midnight, crews rotate calls (crew a takes call 1, crew b takes call 2, crew a takes call 3, etc). We don't usually jump each others calls, occasionally we will "drop by and check things out" for them because we are much closer (some of the staff get real ticked when you take "their call"). We also usually send 2+ rigs for Cardiac/Resp. arrest, Shootings, stabbings, MVA's sounding "bad", anything with multiple victims, etc. We also all have MDC's in the rigs that we can pull up the CAD info on.

From Midnight to 0600, the 1st Call crew handles all calls... the 2nd Call crew handles all calls 1st Call can't take. Usually, 1st call crews are good at going availible when arriving at the hospital (across the street from the squad) because they can transfer the patient to ED staff and be responding before my partner and I get up, dressed, and out the door of the squad to respond. occasionally they won't clear, and then won't take a call that comes in (those calls are usually "BS" ones or the various Nursing Homes, for some reason). So, to some extent, some of these crews pick and choose their calls. I don't have a problem with that, so much, because we are there to back them up.

 

[RMApok]

Okay, I'm going to be the unpopular one here and say that dodging calls, in some cases, is understandable.

I work for a transport service. Honestly, after taking the fifth person of the day home to die, I'm not really in the mood to put off personal plans to take #6. I work a 12 hour shift, and I don't do 911. As that is the case, as far as I'm concerned, end of shift is end of shift. I'll be back tomorrow. There are other units.

Now, priority calls and back-up 911 are a different matter. End of shift comes, and a medical emergency comes, I'm on it. When we do those calls, I give 110%. Screw the off time, this is what I trained for.

But the nursing home shuffle? Taking a pt who is A&Ox0 home from her 10 hospital visit this year and missing plans with the wife? Forget it. If we clear a call 10 minutes before our down time, we stall. I'm not getting off an hour late for a pt who isn't even aware of pain.

But really, if it's in the middle of the shift, even if it's a Bull S*** call, if we don't do it, someone else has to. Might as well take it.

 

[Ridryder911]

Okay, I'm going to be the unpopular one here and say that dodging calls, in some cases, is understandable.

I work for a transport service. Honestly, after taking the fifth person of the day home to die, I'm not really in the mood to put off personal plans to take #6. I work a 12 hour shift, and I don't do 91
Now, priority calls and back-up 911 are a different matter. End of shift comes, and a medical emergency comes, I'm on it. When we do those calls, I give 110%. Screw the off time, this is what I trained for.

But the nursing home shuffle? Taking a pt who is A&Ox0 home from her 10 hospital visit this year and missing plans with the wife? Forget it. If we clear a call 10 minutes before our down time, we stall. I'm not getting off an hour late for a pt who isn't even aware of pain.

Might want to go back to school!
Just because a person is unresponsive and does not respond to pain, DOES NOT mean that they can not interpret pain!!!! This is a common myth among ill trained health care providers. Don't want to miss meeting your wife, I understand.. then get another career.... chances are you would have the same attitude if it was a 911 service.
This is what you were trained for .. patient care, emergency or non-emergency. Most 911 services only provide BLS care 30% of the time and ALS < 10% of the time.
If you are just in this business for the "emergencies", you may want to re-evaluate one's career choices. I work at a total Paramedic 911 service and a Level I Trauma Center, and I see my fill of B.S., it is 90 % of the job... all emergencies all the time, it only happens on t.v........as some can attest, real life and t.v are NOT the same.

R/r 911

 

[Ridryder911]

Wow!.. is all I can say, after reading the entire post. As a Field Supv., If I found out, that you were dodging calls, I fire your as*, right there. Then made sure, through word of mouth how ill responsible you were so other EMS services would know the type of character you were.

It is simple, do your job or go home! No one ever said or taught that it was going to be guts and glory all day long. If you did not learn that on clinicals, then you only fooled yourself. No one likes, B.S. calls or transfers... as I said, I work in a busy 911 system, we still get them and at a Trauma Center I still get the simple lacceration, and UTI's.. You have to weigh the good with the bad. It amazes me, that beginner level healthcare providers, actually think they are above taking care of anything! Even ones who attended an 6-10 year study in emergency medicine still sees b.s.... obviously one does not really know EMS, that is the job!

R/r 911

 

[Jon]

R/r 911 - I understand your point. In RMApok's defense, I sort of alluded to the same thing... I'm not big on "transport work" to begin with, and have, in the past, "stalled" a few minutes in clearing up so that I didn't get stuck on a late discharge run... Like RMApok, if I were held over by an emergency call... not a problem. Getting held over IF I HAVE SOMEWHERE ELSE TO BE (rarely) - I HATED it, and would try to get out of it.

 

[RMApok]

Might want to go back to school!
Just because a person is unresponsive and does not respond to pain, DOES NOT mean that they can not interpret pain!!!! This is a common myth among ill trained health care providers. Don't want to miss meeting your wife, I understand.. then get another career.... chances are you would have the same attitude if it was a 911 service.
This is what you were trained for .. patient care, emergency or non-emergency.
R/r 911

I am aware that someone who is unresponsive to pain CAN feel pain. I misworded my post, it was late. I chose a poor example to illustrate my point.

My point was this. I trained to be an EMERGENCY Medical Technician. Yes, I found out very quickly during class and clinicals that (like most things) the way EMS is portrayed is unrealistic. Also, my expectations about what I would put into my job became more realistic. Transport is EMS without the E. Another way to look at it is as a very expensive taxi service. The majority of the people I transport only need an ambulance because they need to lay down. (There are stretcher vans for this) Also, there are calls that we get because nurses call us to get rid of a pt. There isn't a reason in the world for an ambulance. Ambulatory pt, A&0x4, no history. But no ride home. Nurses want to get rid of them, they call us. We don't refuse transport, because we don't want to lose our contract. (I have had arguements with supervisors who want me to put reasons on my form that don't exist. I will not lie on a pt report. I would love to report supervisors who want me to commit fraud, but I don't want to lose my job for it.)

Don't get me wrong, even on the BS calls, there is much to be done. But a job is a job. I have an off time, and in my job description, it says I cannot be held over my off-time intentionally unless there is an actual emergency call. However, in reality, dispatch will send us to a call at 830 pm, when the call isn't until 930 pm, because they know if it's after 9, we can refuse. Then dispatch won't let us clear, and we have to stay on scene an hour until pt finishes eating. When your company screws you, you look for ways to avoid getting screwed.

Ridryder911 said "It is simple, do your job or go home!" I respect his opinion. But as far as most of my coworkers and I are concerned, we are just like bankers, cashiers, mechanics, office workers, etc. We don't like to stay late. We want to go home. We work to live, not the other way around. As I said, emergencies are a different thing. But I don't believe I should have to stay late because the nurses want to get rid of a *****y pt.

Yes, I am jaded, and yes, I have reconsidered working in another field. But then I get an emergency call, and remember why I got into this.

"Rant mode off"

 

[Jon]

Don't get me wrong, even on the BS calls, there is much to be done. But a job is a job. I have an off time, and in my job description, it says I cannot be held over my off-time intentionally unless there is an actual emergency call. However, in reality, dispatch will send us to a call at 830 pm, when the call isn't until 930 pm, because they know if it's after 9, we can refuse. Then dispatch won't let us clear, and we have to stay on scene an hour until pt finishes eating. When your company screws you, you look for ways to avoid getting screwed.

RMA - you phrased what I was trying to say MUCH better. Unfortunatly, in EMS, it seems that too many companies are out to "screw" the field personell:
FD's that treat their in-house EMS like pariahs, where the medics run non-stop, have to eat the leftovers from the firefighters, and sometimes even spend the days posted on streetcorners, out of the firehouses.

Paid companies that pay their providers poorly, use old ambulances that have been re-built or have gone through 2 engines so that he bosses can turn a bigger profit... and if that isn't enough, they want to be able to bill every run at the highest rate possible, so they ask you to "fudge" your narrative so a patient that could go by wheelchair van can go BLS, etc...

Volunteer squads where politics run rampant, and you can't relax and have fun at the station, you have to watch EVERYTHING you say so that you don't offend anyone, or make it look like you support that :censored: chief.

*rant off* - as much as we try to keep "politics" or the "management vs. provider" struggles out of patient care, sometimes, some crews delay or otherwise "scheme" to not get stuck with a late run.

please note, these examples are the "bad end" of the spectrum.. R/r 911, I'm sure you work for a good company, not a company that should bebusted for medicare-fraud, where the owner drives a Porsche and you get paid minimum wage.

 

[GaEMT]

I have watched this thread "mature" and wanted to offer some insight or opinions... And this is not meant to offend anyone.

1. If you are a basic and stuck on a transfer truck running BLS calls, and you don't like this, then go to MEDIC school. Quit complaining. If you were hired to run a transfer truck, guess what? That is what you are going to do.

2. Yes we are trained as EMERGENCY Medical Techhnicians, but guess what. There are different levels of this training and if you want to run the most complex and serious of calls, further your education.

3. As far as the owner of the company driving a Porsche and you making minumum wage, welcome to captialism in America. Not to be ugly but guess what, the owner is the one who risked HIS money to start the company to give you a job. When you make an investment, you expect a return. His Porsche is his retrun. If you don't like making minimum wage, go to medic school so you can increase your marketability and worth in the job place. If you don't like capitalism, there are always other countries.

4. Spend less time worrying about who is dodging calls and do your job. You are there to work for X hours. Do it. I have run 24 hours shifts where I hgave run as many as 26 calls and shgifts where the wheels haven't turned. You take the good with the bad and simply do your job. I promise in the end it will all balance out.


I am not trying to offend anyone, but "gripe" threads really get me worked up.

 

[RMApok]

I have watched this thread "mature" and wanted to offer some insight or opinions... And this is not meant to offend anyone.

1. If you are a basic and stuck on a transfer truck running BLS calls, and you don't like this, then go to MEDIC school. Quit complaining. If you were hired to run a transfer truck, guess what? That is what you are going to do.

4. Spend less time worrying about who is dodging calls and do your job. You are there to work for X hours. Do it. I have run 24 hours shifts where I hgave run as many as 26 calls and shgifts where the wheels haven't turned. You take the good with the bad and simply do your job. I promise in the end it will all balance out.

I think some people are misunderstanding.

As far as #1 goes, I agree with you completely. Currently, with all thats happening in my life, medic school is not an option. Also, I think people get the impression that all people in transport hate their jobs. I don't. I don't love it, but its better than some I've worked. The reason I don't work 911 is that I don't want to be a 'designated driver' for a job. I like my job, I like my partner, I love my shift, but I hate running late

As far as #4, yes, I am there for a 12 hour shift. I work my 12 hours, and I go home. It's that simple to me. Again, emergencies are a different matter. Today, in fact, we rolled up on an MVA where all pts originally refused, so the cops didn't call the medics. We stopped, and one pt changed their mind. We ran the call, no complaints. We got off late, didn't care. Unless it's an emergency, I go home. Thats my perogative

 

[gradygirl]

Our campus squad is somewhat different, I guess, because we do not transport. But fundamentally, our call response is the same. When it comes to dodging calls, IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. We know which partner teams are supposed to be responding and if someone doesn't show up, no matter what the circumstances (radio didn't tone out, radio in the common room and couldn't hear it, whatever), there is a lengthy meeting ASAP afterwards.

The shifts we run are 14s on week nights and 24s on weekends, and most week nights are guaranteed to be quiet. While we still can do some things on campus during our call hours, we cannot leave campus, cannot attend any function that could compromise us hearing tones, and most of us have enough common sense to not attend anything where it might be disruptive to be toned out. So, yeah, basically we sit around in our rooms and do homework, especially on the weekends when everything is loud. I'm not gonna lie, it can get boring, especially when I ran 61 hours in a 72 hour period. But no matter what, we respond to any and every call.

What makes responding to night calls somewhat unsavory is the fact that we don't have response vehicles. If we get a call at 4am, it's pouring rain outside, is all of about 35 degrees, and we have to make a 15 min. walking trip to the other side of campus to respond to a drunk pt, sucks for us, we have to hoof it. Or to a midnight call in the dead of winter for an icepack (which we don't even carry), only to be threatened with lawyers and lawsuits for the next hour because the kid is too young to refuse, but he doesn't want us to touch him.

Dodging does not happen. Period.