controlling hours worked

okiemedic

BLS Healthcare Provider Instructor
54
3
8
I was just wondering, what are ya'lls shifts like? What is your companies policy on clearing to the station and deactivating. The current company i work for in dfw (large private ift) is really bad at keeping us out hours after our scheduled time. We have had emt's fired for calling in and asking when they can deactivate. After being out 6 hours past their time to leave.

I love what i do, but i dont wanna do it 6 days a week for 16 hours a day.
 

Handsome Robb

Youngin'
Premium Member
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Either 4x12s or 3x16s. Must have a minimum of 8 hours off between shifts so the start time for the 16s gets later by 2 hours each day for the 3 days. We have so many PRN employees that they don't like authorizing extra OT beyond the mandatory for full timers but it does happen from time to time. Same with being held over, it happens but isn't all that common.

I work for the sole company in the area providing ALS 911 coverage.
 

WolfmanHarris

Forum Asst. Chief
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Legally, as a commercial driver cannot work more than 16 hours. At that point I must legally be out of service AND stop driving. If by some chance the vehicle is in service longer than 16 hours before it hits the station, my Sup would have to drive me back to the station and arrange the truck be picked up.

That's not a problem for us though, by policy, upon clearing a call after our shift end we are out of service unless we come onto a call or are closest unit to a cardiac arrest. We can be kept in service if instructed by our Sup but that's essentially reserved for active MCI's, disasters, etc.

Also by policy, we must have eight hours off between shifts. If the shift hits 16 hours they have to delay the start of my next shift to ensure adequate rest and pay me for that time. Usually though, if I get that slammed on a shift, I'm not coming in the next day.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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An hour out from our EOS time, we cannot (well, shouldn't) get non-emergency transfers. 30 minutes out from our EOS time, we're given what's called a "Code 6" time, meaning we get sent back to base to go home. If during our way back, a high priority 911 comes in, we can still catch it if we're closest. High priority such as a cardiac arrest, not a stubbed toe with shortness of breath.
 

Handsome Robb

Youngin'
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An hour out from our EOS time, we cannot (well, shouldn't) get non-emergency transfers. 30 minutes out from our EOS time, we're given what's called a "Code 6" time, meaning we get sent back to base to go home. If during our way back, a high priority 911 comes in, we can still catch it if we're closest. High priority such as a cardiac arrest, not a stubbed toe with shortness of breath.

This is similar to our policy as well. Once we are within 30 mins of EOS the only calls we can be given are priority 1/sometimes 2 if there next unit is too far out to have a reasonable response.
 

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Get another job if that is true.

But be sure the "fired for asking", deal is true before you quit. Could be a company myth, or other factors applied.
 

Medic Tim

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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12 hour , 4 on 4 off. We have to have 10 hours off between shifts. We are only held over if we get a late call.
 

WickedGood

Forum Crew Member
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6
9-5 Mon-Fri with a small IFT/911 backup company. We have a 24 hour truck too and they try like the ****ens to not let day shift get any overtime. It happens on occasion.... but doesn't really get in the way of life.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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Oh, forgot to add, minimum 48 hours a week, 12hr shifts are the main shift, with a few 16hr shifts.


Usually 4 on 3 off, but there's other shifts too.
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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Our guys on day trucks are routinely working 5x12s (they're scheduled for 9hrs) because dispatch can't plan around preschedules. We know it's a retention issue, but I'm not sure anyone knows how to fix it.
 

Nervegas

Forum Lieutenant
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We have so many different types of shifts its amazing. Mine is 4X10 and usually about 45min before deactivation we will call in on the radio to get cleared back to base, if there isn't anything pressing that is holding near us, they usually let us head back. I do get off 30 min late on a semi-regular basis, it just depends on the number of calls and trucks on the street, it's gotten better as more have gotten hired and we finally have a somewhat normal staffing level.
 
OP
OP
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okiemedic

BLS Healthcare Provider Instructor
54
3
8
I've got no problem doing 30 minutes to an hour after shift is gone up. But, When We start talking 3 to 4 hours, and these calls are prescheduled appointments or discharges it gets really irritating. There has been times where dispatch has started laughing over the radio because they know we are pissed and over our time. But they send us on the call anyway...This may have something to do with the fact they are in South Texas and we are here in DFW....

I was standing in the room when the EMT got fired for calling in and asking. He was polite about it. Supervisor told him to get out and don't come back. Poor guy just wanted to go home and sleep!

This company has total disregard for anybody but themselves. Then again, They do tell us to push drugs on every call. Me they are fixing to get in trouble...But im not gonna be around to experience that!

From what y'all are saying....It sounds like it isn't the norm...Which is a relief!
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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Don't feel too bad for that EMT, chances are he gets to file for unemployment and sirens around for a while on the employers dime.


That's what I'd be doing if I got fired for that reason.
 

RocketMedic

Californian, Lost in Texas
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A few calls to the labor regulations agency and state medical regulators should help...which company? Can you pm me so I know who to avoid?
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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When you apply to an EMS service, inquire as to the availability of OT. If it's copious, that's a red flag. Is it that they're rapidly expanding, or is it that the turnover is high due to low pay and poor working conditions? Do your due dilligence. You may want the OT at first, but when it's routinely forced on you, it gets old real quick.

My FT employer is fire based, with 24's only, WOWOWOOOO, for three days working in a nine day cycle. Holdovers are total 36 consecutive house max. We have a "no hold/recall list" that we use if we have a trip planned, MD appointment, etc.

My per diem hospital runs shifts no longer than 12 scheduled hours. The problem is, you can be tagged for a long distance txp with less than an hour before shift change. They're usually reasonable about getting people off on time, but I've heard of a few horror stories. Gor example, we have some people who hold certs both in VA and WV. One individual was the only available dual cert medic with PALS (not mandatory until six months after being hired IIRC), so he had a four hour run each way with maybe two hours left in his shift. Dual cert medics are busier, and get more late jobs, typically with distance involved. It is for this reason that I won't go for dual cert, nor will I pick up overnight shifts. An 0400-0500 pickup going three hours away when you get off at 0600-0800 isn't cool.

Realize that up to a certain point, it's cheaper for the employer to get more mileage out of existing crews by way of late jobs and mandatory holdover/recall than it is to hire, train, and pay benefits for new employees. Some places make three 12's a FT schedule, because late jobs are a regular occurence, and the first four hours are straight time anyway (except in CA).
 

WolfmanHarris

Forum Asst. Chief
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Also we can not be assigned a non-emerg transfer that will incur OT. So if there is an out of town, four hour round trip, we won't get it in the last five hours since with reasonable turn around time we would not be able to complete the call during our shift.

No Code 3 (emerg but no L&S) are assigned in last half hour of the shift.
 

medicsb

Forum Asst. Chief
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I've got no problem doing 30 minutes to an hour after shift is gone up. But, When We start talking 3 to 4 hours, and these calls are prescheduled appointments or discharges it gets really irritating. There has been times where dispatch has started laughing over the radio because they know we are pissed and over our time. But they send us on the call anyway...This may have something to do with the fact they are in South Texas and we are here in DFW....

Unionize.

I was standing in the room when the EMT got fired for calling in and asking. He was polite about it. Supervisor told him to get out and don't come back. Poor guy just wanted to go home and sleep!

Unionize.

This company has total disregard for anybody but themselves. Then again, They do tell us to push drugs on every call. Me they are fixing to get in trouble...But im not gonna be around to experience that!

If they're telling you to push drugs on every call and employees are doing that, then it is bad patient care, but even worse in the eyes of medicare, it's fraud. One call could sink the whole company.
 

medicsb

Forum Asst. Chief
818
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Anyhow...

My last prehospital job had a limit of 18 consecutive hours. But, stupidly, they only required 6 hours time off between shifts, so a medic could work 18 then have 6 off and be back on for another 18. We were pretty busy (mean UHU was ~0.5 with a range of 0.3-1 for 12 trucks), so I don't think this was in anyway a good practice (in regards to the 6 hour time off between shifts, in particular).

The one good policy was that as soon as you hit the 18 hour mark, you had to go out of service and return, no matter what happened. As far as the usual 12, we'd get held over frequently due to call volume but usually no longer than an hour or 2 (a handful of times I was held over for 3 hours or longer, mostly for charting). But once calls calmed down, you could request to go out of service to get back to the station for shift change, which was almost always permitted.
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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If they're telling you to push drugs on every call and employees are doing that, then it is bad patient care, but even worse in the eyes of medicare, it's fraud. One call could sink the whole company.
I'm fairly certain I'm familiar with the company involved. Holdover is a huge problem. As for above? That's not the expectation at all. The expectation is that you treat your patient and not treat it like "Gomer Tote Taxi Service".
 

medicdan

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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Also we can not be assigned a non-emerg transfer that will incur OT. So if there is an out of town, four hour round trip, we won't get it in the last five hours since with reasonable turn around time we would not be able to complete the call during our shift.

No Code 3 (emerg but no L&S) are assigned in last half hour of the shift.

Can/Does dispatch give the crew the option of taking the call?
 
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