Can you ever act as a civilian while having EMT certification?

CougarEMT

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Folks,

Just got EMT certified in NJ. I understand that you must act within your scope of practice when on duty, and can act as an EMT off duty with some protection by the Good Samaritan Laws.

However, the question that if have is this: If you are EMT qualified by off duty or currently not working for a service as an EMT, are you permitted to do things that a normal civilian would do? For example, can I give Tylenol to a family, friend or stranger if I am not on duty or not employed even though I have EMT certification (this of course would not be permitted when on duty).

In other words, after/with certification, can I ever do things that a normal civilian would do?

Thanks
CougarEMT
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
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Yes.

Also, unless you’re in the military, you’re still a “normal civilian.”
 

RocketMedic

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Yes, you can still give Tylenol to your friends and family. Pretty much anything medical a layperson would do without a prescription is totally in-bounds for you, because you're functionally just a medically-educated person. Same for minor wound care, etc.

The only time Good Sam kicks in is if it's a stranger and you're serving as a responder to their emergency. Good Sam wouldn't cover you giving Nyquil to your kids, for example...that's parenting.
 
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CougarEMT

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So basically you function as an EMT only when you are on official duty for an agency, or if you respond to an incident as an EMT even though you are "off duty"? Am I correct?

CougarEMT
 

Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
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So basically you function as an EMT only when you are on official duty for an agency, or if you respond to an incident as an EMT even though you are "off duty"? Am I correct?

CougarEMT
Not exactly. You "function" as an EMT when you're "on-duty" as such. When you're "off-duty" and you're voluntarily helping someone with their problem, you're considered a "medically-trained" person. In some instances, that means you can use your full-scope, in others, you're "limited" to BLS only. In my case, I'm trained in Sports Med, Paramedic, and RN. I'm not locally affiliated with an ALS field company so I can't use the full Paramedic scope and the LEMSA limits non-physicians to BLS... however that doesn't mean I can't do very in-depth assessments to the limit of what I know and attempt to mitigate what I find as long as it doesn't involve anything invasive.

Good Sam laws do protect you from quite a bit but only as long as you're voluntarily helping and you don't exceed your authorized scope when off-duty. Safest to stay within BLS scope when off-duty.
 

DrParasite

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yes.

For the record, when I'm off duty, I'm just a helpful firefighter. I've stopped at MVCs in NJ in my youth, and never identified myself as an EMS professional. I did a basic assessment, maybe some bleeding control, and a lot of handholding.... and tell the cop exactly what I need so he could call for the proper resources.

However, even if certified, you can still give OTC meds just like any other person can. If you want to be paranoid, you can even specify that you are giving as a civilian, not a medical professional.... I tried to do that with my 1 year old, and his response was to spit it back out and pee on me... your experiences may vary a bit...
 
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CougarEMT

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Not exactly. You "function" as an EMT when you're "on-duty" as such. When you're "off-duty" and you're voluntarily helping someone with their problem, you're considered a "medically-trained" person. In some instances, that means you can use your full-scope, in others, you're "limited" to BLS only. In my case, I'm trained in Sports Med, Paramedic, and RN. I'm not locally affiliated with an ALS field company so I can't use the full Paramedic scope and the LEMSA limits non-physicians to BLS... however that doesn't mean I can't do very in-depth assessments to the limit of what I know and attempt to mitigate what I find as long as it doesn't involve anything invasive.

Good Sam laws do protect you from quite a bit but only as long as you're voluntarily helping and you don't exceed your authorized scope when off-duty. Safest to stay within BLS scope when off-duty.


Got it. The confusion for me is that where I am in NJ, EMTs as not permitted to give some of the basic meds that ordinary people with give - such as Tylenol, Benadryl, etc. Just wondering if I act like an "ordinary" (non-EMT) person when I am not officially on duty, if I could be held as acting out of my scope of practice as an EMT.

CougarEMT
 

Summit

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Yes.

Also, unless you’re in the military, you’re still a “normal civilian.”
Exactly... can our industry please stop with the us-them abuse of the word "civilian?" Enough already!
 

Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
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Got it. The confusion for me is that where I am in NJ, EMTs as not permitted to give some of the basic meds that ordinary people with give - such as Tylenol, Benadryl, etc. Just wondering if I act like an "ordinary" (non-EMT) person when I am not officially on duty, if I could be held as acting out of my scope of practice as an EMT.

CougarEMT
Most of the time, people will ask if you have that stuff. When you give that stuff to someone while you're on duty, you're giving it per a given protocol. When you're not on duty, you don't have OLMC to help you as you're not on duty and acting in your official capacity. Back to "that stuff"... because you're not giving it per a protocol, and someone usually ask for that stuff, if you have it and make it available and they take it, you're not the one administering, you have it available and they're self-administering.

In other words, you're overthinking this stuff. When you're off duty, you can do stuff that ordinary lay people can do, you just also happen to have some basic medical training. Just don't exceed your actual ability/knowledge. Just because you saw it on Youtube doesn't mean you can actually do it...
 

DrParasite

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So no cutting open someone's throat with a steak knife and a straw cuz they're choking?
well, considering you are supposed to use a big pen instead of a straw because it's stronger, I would say no.....
 

DesertMedic66

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well, considering you are supposed to use a big pen instead of a straw because it's stronger, I would say no.....
If you already cut the neck open a straw would be all you would need. Use a pen if you don’t have a knife to make the cut.
 

DrParasite

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If you already cut the neck open a straw would be all you would need. Use a pen if you don’t have a knife to make the cut.
you don't use the pen to cut, that's what the steak knife is for. you use the pen body (with the ink and tip removed, duh), to maintain a patent airway, as the straw might collapse if pressure is applied to it; the same can't be paid for the bic pen shaft.
 

Summit

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you don't use the pen to cut, that's what the steak knife is for. you use the pen body (with the ink and tip removed, duh), to maintain a patent airway, as the straw might collapse if pressure is applied to it; the same can't be paid for the bic pen shaft.
It works best in the back of a WW2 jeep in Korea (or outside LA), but it's only in protocol for Catholic Priests (or EMTs dressed as one).
 
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