Bleeding control

bburnette252

Forum Probie
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Alright call me a noob or squirrel or whatever makes you happy but I have a question.

I'm working on a very small IFAK for my EDC. I want it small enough to fit in a cargo pocket. I watched a training video where they discussed during an active shooter event, if you or family/friend get shot that you could very well bleed out before the scene is declared safe by LEOs and EMS can enter. So therefore I want a small kit to stop bleeding.

Unfortunately a Combat tourniquet is big and bulky, so do you think a IV tourniquet (like we use when starting IVs) would control bleeding for at least a little while? I know it would hurt like a mother because it's not very wide but it beats dying.

Of course it's gonna have some 4x4s and other random blood stoppers but give me ideas if you got them.
 

vcuemt

Ambulance Driver
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Alright call me a noob or squirrel or whatever makes you happy but I have a question.

I'm working on a very small IFAK for my EDC. I want it small enough to fit in a cargo pocket. I watched a training video where they discussed during an active shooter event, if you or family/friend get shot that you could very well bleed out before the scene is declared safe by LEOs and EMS can enter. So therefore I want a small kit to stop bleeding.

Unfortunately a Combat tourniquet is big and bulky, so do you think a IV tourniquet (like we use when starting IVs) would control bleeding for at least a little while? I know it would hurt like a mother because it's not very wide but it beats dying.

Of course it's gonna have some 4x4s and other random blood stoppers but give me ideas if you got them.
A combat tourniquet is big and bulky? It can fit in my pocket.

But to answer your question: cravats.
 
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rmabrey

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Just wear a belt that will work as a tourniquet. Problem solved. Then you dont have to carry a kit around for the 0.2% chance you have at being involved in an active shooter situation.
 

bburnette252

Forum Probie
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Just wear a belt that will work as a tourniquet. Problem solved. Then you dont have to carry a kit around for the 0.2% chance you have at being involved in an active shooter situation.

I tend to agree with you but anymore I'd say the chances are greater than 0.2%.

Especially the places I hang out lol.
 

STXmedic

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You want to put together an IFAK, but a tourniquet is too big? Tourniquets easily fit in your cargo pockets without you even realizing they're there. Every street officer in our police department is required to carry a tourniquet on duty, and many of them carry two. If you want something that's effective, get a commercial tourniquet. If you want something you'll fumble with and likely fail with while you're bleeding out, get a cravat. There's a reason the military and EMS systems don't use cravats (or IV tourniquets ).

Edit: I'll take a look for the various studies that show improvised tourniquets are worthless.
 
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Remi

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I watched a training video where they discussed during an active shooter event, if you or family/friend get shot that you could very well bleed out before the scene is declared safe by LEOs and EMS can enter. So therefore I want a small kit to stop bleeding.
Rapid exsanguination is not generally from isolated extremity injuries; bleeding from those can often be slowed dramatically by a combination of improvised devices and/or direct arterial pressure.

It's the trunk injuries that get ya quickly. Nothing a tourniquet can do about those.
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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so do you think a IV tourniquet (like we use when starting IVs) would control bleeding for at least a little while? I know it would hurt like a mother because it's not very wide but it beats dying.
Does your patient lose distal pulses or get mottled when you start an IV? Does an IV tourniquet tamponade venous flow, arterial, or both? What type of bleed are you likely to exsanguinate from?
 

rwik123

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The SWAT-T TQ might fit your bill. It's pretty compact but then again a CAT is pretty small too. You're disillusioned if you think an IV rubber TQ will stop arterial bleeding.
 
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Handsome Robb

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I can vouch for the SWAT-T from personal experience. It's small, easy to use and apply and is effective. I've used it effectively multiple times but the most "memorable" was on a popliteal artery bleed secondary to a GSW on a patient who weighed 450#. Had to use two but they held.
 

bburnette252

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I can vouch for the SWAT-T from personal experience. It's small, easy to use and apply and is effective. I've used it effectively on a popliteal artery bleed on a patient who weighed 450#. Had to use two but they held.

That's good to hear, I heard some bad reviews on them but this is somewhat reassuring. I might pick one up someday but for now I bought the CavArms TQ for my EDC and I keep the handy dandy CATs in my jump bag
 

Handsome Robb

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That's good to hear, I heard some bad reviews on them but this is somewhat reassuring. I might pick one up someday but for now I bought the CavArms TQ for my EDC and I keep the handy dandy CATs in my jump bag

They take two people to apply effectively in my experience. I've used them on 4 different occasions and all took two providers to apply but they do work.

My biggest thing about the SWAT-T is you have options. You can use it as a TQ or use it as a pressure dressing. Just depends how and where you wrap it.

My biggest piece of advice is take the extra 5-10 seconds to make sure it's not rolled around itself applying pressure over a tiny area.

Edit: our TEMS team uses the CAT with the SWAT-T as their third or fourth backup.
 
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rwik123

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A large majority of cops around me carry the SWAT due to its ability to lay flat behind a plate carrier or armor bundled with some quik-clot. I've only used one as a pressure dressing and it worked great. Probably wouldn't use one as a first line TQ if I had a CAT handy just due to the fact its not as secure as a locked off conventional TQ.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN
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No to the iv tourniquet

The SWAT-T TQ might fit your bill. It's pretty compact but then again a CAT is pretty small too. You're disillusioned if you think an IV rubber TQ will stop arterial bleeding.
The SWAT-T or the CAT. The CAT is the default for military and isn't that big. An IV tourniquet is not a tourniquet. Exsanguination can happen very rapidly. It's the number one cause of preventable death on the battlefield. Don't compromise.
 

InNoViSiOn

Forum Crew Member
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Read through the thread and I agree that the rubber IV TQ for EDC isn't practical and I wouldn't bet my life on it. The Swat-t and a triangular bandage are both good suggestions. Another option might be the Tk4 TQ. It isn't as effective as a CAT or SOFT-W, but is definitely more effective than an IV TQ and is just as compact. The best option is the CAT since you can manipulate it one handed. The SOFTT-W is nice because its extra wide and has aluminum buckles (the CAT is plastic).

I carry this same kit on my person since I saw this video a couple years ago.

I also have a IFAK in my backpack that I've carried for years that is usually with me that has a CAT and SOFTT-W and other things (israeli bandage, quickclot, gauze, SAM splints ect...)
 

Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
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A good friend of mine is a Corpsman and he teaches a First Aid class that basically specializes in what to do if you get shot. He's become a fan of the CAT, though he can use others. Normally he carries two of them and they really don't take up much room in his IFAK. All of the Marines he looked after also carried them... From what I've heard from him over the years, they worked really well.
 

WildlandEMT89

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I have a cat and a couple of TK4s.
The TK4 is very compact (even more so than a cat) and fits in the palm of your hand. Both are very intuitive and can be used with one hand. One thing I would consider is that the cat will degrade over time when exposed to the elements, whereas the TK4 comes packaged and will be protect and in my mind last longer.
 

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