Are we EMS brothers and sisters?

[dadotwins]

I'm probably the most disillusioned person going. I believe we are all brothers and sisters in this EMS world of ours. Having read some of the replies to various post, I see a trend. A person or persons reply to the original post and are quickly cut down or critisized by others for their comments. When I post I'm looking for the varied experiences of the vast amount of people out there. I have found that a couple of times my post have led to heated arguments. NOT my intent. I do realize that we all have a freedom of speach and this forum allows for a great many views. I suppose these freedoms excludes a little kindness toward one another. (Being honest,forward or opinionated isn't what i'm talking about. I'm talking about cut throating someone else's comment toward the original thread. This I thought was their freedom, to responde as they feel.) I guess i'm wrong. peace toall, until then...prayer.

 

[JPINFV]

First off, this is a private web forum. As such there is no more freedom of speech other than what the administrative team grants us.

As to the point of the thread, no, I do not view us as brothers and sisters. Besides holding the same certification and job title, there is very little similarity between, for example, someone trying to get onto a fire department and has a cert for no greater reason than they are required to and me. There is very little similarity between the majority of people who see EMT-B as the end point of their medical career (especially if they plan on staying as an EMT-B ) and me. I can go on with a variety of differences in providers in the field that makes me take a definitive stand that we are not brothers and sisters.

Another reason is that the idea of relationship through job field is commonly used as a shield against any critique. I will fully admit to being blunt, sometimes overly so. I expect people to be blunt with me as well. How can I fix something if I do not know it's wrong due to inexperience, undereducated [I will fully admit to having a lack of applied medical education], or simply missing something that may be obvious to someone else. How I can become a better provider if I don't know what I need to fix? Unfortunately, there are people out there that are so thin skinned that any negative comment is taken as being offensive, doubly so if we're all "brothers and sisters."

 

[Flight-LP]

I have one sister, she is not in EMS..................

EMS is not a fraternity or sorority, it is a professional career, at least in my mind. Others I sometimes question.

I too am rather blunt, so be it. I get aggrevated when inexperience and emotion overrun good 'ol common sense. People come in with here with just some really ignorant comments and beliefs, some downright dangerous. Many do not care to hear experience or knowledge if it interferes with their little world. I call it as I see it and my statements are of personal opinion, usually with a decent amount of factual knowledge. If others don't care to hear it, so be it, they make that choice. But if their rebuttal is a continuation of ignorance, or by actual definition, stupidity, then they receive feedback stating as much. Sometimes I am eloquent about it, sometimes the CL's have to drag me to the corner and beat me (Jon, please remove the belt buckle next time, it really hurts!). Regardless, I do not take lightly to ignorance, stupidity, immaturity, and idiotic behavior which degrades the career path I have chosen. If that is being too harsh, too bad. Todays generation needs a lesson or two on interpersonal communication and constructive critism. Thick skin is a necessity in this industry!

 

[reaper]

This is one of the friendlier forums! Try some other forums for different professions, you will be amazed at the control we have here.

 

[Ridryder911]

I'm probably the most disillusioned person going. I believe we are all brothers and sisters in this EMS world of ours. .

Yes, you became delusion and NOR should we ever consider ourselves as such. Professionals do not need or regard to each other as "brothers/sisters" as the reason is usually to protect and cover up, and promote the "good ole boys" mentality.

Should one have professional peers and friends? You bet. Alike all friendships and professional peers, one should develop it from trust and respect not just a given because one attended a few night courses, wears the same patch or works in an ambulance.

Did you also read what the " brother and sisterhood" mentality methods allow? Part of the problem with the famous Code of Blue. Instead of firing, removing their license, or even publicly criticization none to minimal actions occurred. Professionals may not air their problems but will ensure that it is taken care of, controlled and handled appropriately.

 

[akflightmedic]

I couldn't agree more with the above posters. Colleagues/coworkers are not my brothers or sisters; nor are they mother, father, or any other relationship you wish to toss out there.

EMS is a job. We are there to do what we can when other's are sick or injured. I have a few friends in EMS, however my life does not revolve around EMS. I have friends from all different walks of life and not every thought of the day is centered around EMS.

I give and expect honest, direct critiques and I do not get offended as that is the only way I can learn or improve.

If you are stupid, ignorant or just lazy, I am going to tell you so, then correct you and inform you, because I do not wish for you to represent EMS wherever you are and make it look bad for all of us.

Besides, my real life brother and sister used to fight with me and each other all the time and it got pretty nasty; yet in the end we were still ok, because we had improved and learned something because of it.

 

[emt19723]

wow.....just WOW!!!!:angry:

 

[JPINFV]

wow.....just WOW!!!!:angry:

Explain please.

 

[emt19723]

ok....im all for contructive criticism. and true, there are some people that are a little harsh when it comes to giving advice and suggestions to the posters here.

but im sorry.....to say that the EMS field is not a brotherhood just makes me sad. it's not about a "good ole boy" mentality, or that we need to "cover" for each other. Its about being able to count on each other when there is no one else to go to to talk about the rough calls, the stress, or whatever. I am SO glad that I am NOT where you people are from. We ALL watch out for each other around here. next station over....next township.....next county....we all have each other backs. and....it doesnt matter if youre an EMT, a medic, firefighter, a police officer, or even a dispatcher. were ALL emergency services.....we're all in it together.

 

[Ridryder911]

ok....im all for contructive criticism. and true, there are some people that are a little harsh when it comes to giving advice and suggestions to the posters here.

but im sorry.....to say that the EMS field is not a brotherhood just makes me sad. it's not about a "good ole boy" mentality, or that we need to "cover" for each other. Its about being able to count on each other when there is no one else to go to to talk about the rough calls, the stress, or whatever. I am SO glad that I am NOT where you people are from. We ALL watch out for each other around here. next station over....next township.....next county....we all have each other backs. and....it doesnt matter if youre an EMT, a medic, firefighter, a police officer, or even a dispatcher. were ALL emergency services.....we're all in it together.

We do too but one does not have to have a "brotherhood" or anything alike that. That is what professionals do. It's called doing your job correctly and fully.

Sorry, EMS does NOT need brotherhood or comradely of such. We need more that want to do their job correctly and fully, screen those that are appropriate for being able to perform the job, develop systems that work and realize that it is just part of the job to assist and be part of the team.

Covering for each other and "having each other backs" represents that one is doing something they should not or their inadequacy. Watching out for each other is a gimme and does not need to be a brotherhood to perform such.

R/r 911

 

[emt19723]

Rid,

i respect your knowledge, and your experience. and i usually always look forward to reading your posts. but it's obvious that we have two TOTALLY different definitions of "brotherhood" and totally different perceptions of this post.

 

[mikie]

I don't see it as a 'brotherhood' (or sister ), however we do have a unique quality that separates 'us' from other professions. We are all committed to the same goals (hopefully). So there is some 'unity' but its nothing that is advertised like in the firehouse.

We're all EMTs, regardless of -B, -I, -P or whatever. We share that and our ideas in this forum.

So that's my .3cents

 

[mycrofft]

If we're all brothers and sisters, can I borrow $50 'til allowance?

Uh, WOW! Talk about lost points and piles of fresh steaming horse-hubris.

Don't take the side-spins your threads may trigger personally, and if they bother you, stop reading them.

I've been involved in other forums, this one isn't bad, but it isn't the best as far as interpersonal relations goes. The quality of posters is higher than some, the passion coefficient is nice and high, but the medical dodge and it's allied professions and auxilliaries (and EMS IS an auxilliary to medicine as long as it relies entirely upon protocols and standardized procedures written by MD's to do anything beyond layperson first aid) attract some individuals best described as "perfect critics". The process here seems to me to be to share experience and points of view, and one or two humorless but expert curmudgeons is perfect. However, sometimes it can become a critical dogpile, and then it becomes oppressive. This is abetted everywhere by the anonymity afforded by the Internet, but medicine etc. attracts people like that because it has no ceiling on perfection and no tolerance for imperfection, despite the human condition. Try acting like that in most professions and your peers will drum you out, but in medicine etc. there will always be a few like-minds perched and waiting for a hesitant, misguided, wrong, or even just plain timid overture to pounce upon.

Truth be known if we are honest and done this for any amount of time we will admit, if only to ourselves, that we have done wrong, screwed the pooch, but also sometimes done good. If all you have is the last one, you are really green and lucky, a liar, or in need of some mental correction.

I fel that we have to use this time away from the rigors of the REAL medical world to compare notes on our victories and screwups, spread useful information and warnings, get that pat on the shoulder and quick but unharmfully-intended dope-slap we need to keep it all going. Through that lies the "brotherhood and sisterhood" we need, and which could be the nucleus for uplifting EMS instead of breaking it apart from within as nursing has for a century or more.

As I always end my rants,
"So sez me!" (Alfalfa Switzer, 1931).

 

[mycrofft]

Did I remember to ask about the $50?

...........

 

[akflightmedic]

What are the unique qualities that seperate us from other professions?

Lawyers all have the same goals for the most part.

Teachers, accountants, book publishers, janitors.....name any career and you wills ee that those within that career choice have the same goals. So what is it that makes "US" extra special?

Absolutely nothing. We are doing what we enjoy, it is a job, nothing more to it. As any professional should do within their career, we must steadily increase our knowledge in order to improve. Most professions do this and take pride in it, EMS does not.

To the poster who says he/she is glad they do not live where we are...that makes absolutely no sense; because I am able to seperate a familial feeling from my job makes me a bad or incompetent provider?? I think not.

I am here to do my very best on every call and give the patient what they deserve. To do so requires me to constantly learn new things and expand my personal knowledge. I am full of empathy when needed, I do not need to live and breathe EMS to feel complete in my life. EMS is NOT my hobby. I have a life outside of the job, so I do not need brothers and sisters.

As Rid stated, he is on track when the only justification you can give is to be there for each other. Yes I have had partners I bonded to, but I have a strong support system outside of EMS. It is all about communication.

It is when we get an elitist attitude and think no one outside EMS can understand or relate that we begin to harm ourselves. We encapsulate ourselves and allow the job to consume our lives. We are not all that special despite what your mother and television tells you.

 

[Sasha]

What are the unique qualities that seperate us from other professions?

Lawyers all have the same goals for the most part.

Teachers, accountants, book publishers, janitors.....name any career and you wills ee that those within that career choice have the same goals. So what is it that makes "US" extra special?

Absolutely nothing. We are doing what we enjoy, it is a job, nothing more to it. As any professional should do within their career, we must steadily increase our knowledge in order to improve. Most professions do this and take pride in it, EMS does not.

To the poster who says he/she is glad they do not live where we are...that makes absolutely no sense; because I am able to seperate a familial feeling from my job makes me a bad or incompetent provider?? I think not.

I am here to do my very best on every call and give the patient what they deserve. To do so requires me to constantly learn new things and expand my personal knowledge. I am full of empathy when needed, I do not need to live and breathe EMS to feel complete in my life. EMS is NOT my hobby. I have a life outside of the job, so I do not need brothers and sisters.

As Rid stated, he is on track when the only justification you can give is to be there for each other. Yes I have had partners I bonded to, but I have a strong support system outside of EMS. It is all about communication.

It is when we get an elitist attitude and think no one outside EMS can understand or relate that we begin to harm ourselves. We encapsulate ourselves and allow the job to consume our lives. We are not all that special despite what your mother and television tells you.

Teachers, lawyers, book sellers do not have the kind of job hazard that EMS professionals do. They arent in danger of some whackadoo in the back of the truck suddenly going postal on them, or the Crip who shot the Blood coming back to make sure no one stops what he started. That is when you need someone to watch your back.

But EMS is not a brotherhood. There is a sense of unity and togetherness that other professions do not have, our ultimate goal is the same, to provide the best care possible for each and every patient.

Maybe your individual station is a brotherhood, people you see every third day, eat with and sleep with, or the partner you share an ambulance with for 40+ hours a week, but just because we hold the same certification does not make us a brother or sisterhood.

 

[wxduff]

I want to reply here because I feel that my post that led to an argument is one of the posts that led you to write what you have here.

Did I take a beating, yes...

Did I deserve it? Maybe...

I feel that EMS has many sides, to many to pull us all together in one "brotherhood". There's career medics, to volunteer first responders, and everything in between. There's BLS crews, Rescue Squads, Helimedics, etc.

The people that you work with, whether it be you co-workers, or your fellow volunteers, that is where the brotherhood might (I used the word might here people, not does) exist. At least with some volunteers, there's a brotherhood. My father drove an ambulance for the voly fire dept. down my road, and although his job takes him away from it, he still attends department fundraisers, events, and member funerals, because with those guys were his brothers when he was there.

But then again, when I go to a paid department near me, all I hear from the medics is how they like to talk :censored::censored::censored::censored: about each other when one of them doesn't get their way with scheduling or something.

And please don't take my comments as medics are heartless, and volunteers aren't. I'm just using examples I know. I'm sure there are examples of the opposite way around.

I feel that there isn't an all encompassing brotherhood, as everyone else agrees, but I'm sure every person who is ever involved in providing health care in general, the people who touch patients and work with real people, they all understand that they do something that matters. That if it weren't for them or the system they're a part of, peoples lives would be worse.

Every medic knows that every basic is important, every doctor knows that every nurse is important, every er tech, every first responder, every lifeguard, even if they chose not to show it. And to be a part of that chain so to speak, there must be the willingness to help people in their time of need, and have the integrity to do their best to help every patient to the best of their ability.

So is their a buddy buddy thing going on? No. Not all the time, or everywhere at least. Is their a need to keep each other willing to help and withhold the integrity of ems as a whole. Obviously, because otherwise no-one would have said anything otherwise in my post. They felt the integrity of the EMS system was being infringed by my crews practice. I'm going to chat with my chief on Sunday, because I realize the harsh words used against me was really the EMS system trying to protect itself. And some of it made sense, even if it upset me.

We are all united by the fact that:

A. Human life matters to us, and that we are trained to protect it.
B. The EMS system means enough to us that it deserves protecting.
C. Criticism is our form of defense. As long as it stays to a non-insulting level, then it's a good thing.

I've learned, and hopefully you reading this will make you understand that you don't need a brotherhood to do what really matters, which is to care about what you're doing, and how you're doing it, and not who you're doing it with.

I hope I come across clear, and that this post is also my apology for my negative responses in the argument that I was involved in.

 

[only1jomo]

WOW! You guys are intense. I see I'm in the right place. I love that you all speak your mind. I don't care if it's friendly or harsh. I don't care about brotherhood/sisterhood but I would hope that there is some sense of "village raising the child" so to speak. I came to this site looking for many opinions,good advise, knowledge from the people that really know. I am a firm believer in the never ending quest for knowledge. There can't be much teaching or guiding going on if there is so much bickering.

 

[Robby1974]

agree with most everyone here. I am very new but have not developed 'extremely" close relationships on the ambos I have run on. There is a professional mutual respect that is apparent with most of my coworkers and with that of other orgs as well FD, Metro etc. But a brotherhood? I would have to agree that a brotherhood type atmosphere might be more apparent in a volley system but I have not been around that so I can't say. "AW HECK...I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS!!!! Hugs all around LOL B)B)

 

[FFMedic1911]

The above replys is the reason am ready to leave the job.We used to be a brotherhood but am afraid those days are gone.To infer that a brotherhood is something to cover up mistakes I have to disagree.It nice to know that when your down you have friends.I guess most of you don't need them.Also if you think other medical professionals don't take care of each other your living in a fantasy world.