Another for the "shocks classmate" awards...

[c-spine]

Registry on Saturday... keep in mind we're Basics, but regardless. I guess one of my classmates was asked to turn off the defib in the cardiac station, and hit the shock button instead, thereby shocking his partner.

They passed the station, though... ^_^

 

[ffemt8978]

Actual shock or were they using a trainer?

I find it almost irresponsible to use an actual defib for a training scenario.

 

[Wingnut]

Actual shock or were they using a trainer?

I find it almost irresponsible to use an actual defib for a training scenario.

We never used the real thing and even then we NEVER were hooked up to it, or even allowed to touch the pads other than for application on the mannequin.

 

[c-spine]

lol... no, just a trainer; but she said she got shocked by it anyway. -shrug-

 

[ffemt8978]

lol... no, just a trainer; but she said she got shocked by it anyway. -shrug-

:blink::blink::blink:

 

[MMiz]

When I did the school EMS club, I took a LifePak 500 trainer with me. The real LifePak 500 was removed from the ambulance and locked in the cage until I got back, and I removed the defib pads for the LifePak 12 I used for demonstrations.

That said, I did "shock" my partner with the trainer during school. Her leg was touching the cot, and she was told she was "shocked" and had to sit down.

I refuse to mess around with this stuff.

 

[Jon]

In -P school - if we even "waved the paddles" around we got beat with a wet noodle...

The rule was - on the patient or on the Defib - nowhere in between.

 

[Ridryder911]

I haven't seen paddles in years...except stored in the cabinets. This is one of the reasons for using "fast-patch".. as well, both buttons have to be depressed or main switch of the paddles for a discharge to occur. So, if someone discharged the paddles, they had to depress both buttons and knew what they were doing. This is a built in safety feature, most non-ALS personnel are not aware of.

R/r 911

 

[Chimpie]

lol... no, just a trainer; but she said she got shocked by it anyway. -shrug-

:blink::blink::blink:

:blink: too, cause trainers don't even have the technology to shock.

 

[joemt]

I think you are misunderstanding the "evaluator".. by saying it "shocked" she was basically reminding you that you were demonstrating an unsafe practice... I do the same thing with my students.. if they don't recite their "Scene Safety, BSI" Mantra, I have the "patient" pretend to shoot them or have the scene automatically become unsafe...

I like to think of it as "shock therapy".. pun intended.

I'd rather they learn within the confines of a classroom, instead of out where dead and forgetful are forever.

 

[c-spine]

no, she said it shocked her, as in an actual shock; but as I said, I wasn't in the room; I'm just going by what she said, and I'm not going to argue over it... lol. I don't know you guys well enough to argue with you yet.

 

[FFEMT1764]

Here's a scary thought...we used a real, live, functioning LP in medic class...in fact we had from a LP4 up to a 12, plus an HP machine...we even paced a few peoples legs...and as far as the two buttons to make a LP shock, thats not always true, at work we have zoll m series monitors which only require 1 button push on the machine itself to send the joules a flying...but we have yet to shock ourselves....and I have heard of a triner LP/AED actually delivering low current shocks at 5 volts with like 300ma so you do get a slight tingle to remind you that opps I wasnt clear was I...:unsure:

 

[Ridryder911]

Either someone has defaulted your trainer or someone has made a real defib into a trainer. Trainers are specifically made to deliver NO energy. In fact, most of the wires from the cable or pads to inside are not connected to any thing.

If someone did truly get shocked then I would notify the representative of that equipment and have an investigation performed. Something is wrong.

As far as defib paddles, one must remember the physics of how defibrillation occurs of + to - and as well why there is two buttons on each paddle. Pads has a made in ground. That is also as well, why there is a distinct difference between defibrillation and cardioversion techniques.

Any of the documented material I can find about "accidental" defibrillation was either a short on the wire from the paddles (while in charge mode) improper clearance, touching the patient, material or being in extreme moist to wet environments. I myself have been "buzzed" many times by physicians, nurses and medics not "clearing" the area... I can allude this is not fun. Of course there is the idiots that horseplay and kill their partner of the other category of improper use, which unfortunate if you are not properly trained or licensed, one should not be have any swellings with a defibrillator.

Any of these anecdotal events that occur should be documented and reported to FDA web site on EMS equipment problems, they are trying to maintain a registrar of such incidences.

As far as an instructor applying electrodes and pacing legs.. he/she is an idiot and is awaitng for a tragic accident. If one wants to truly see the mode of electrical impulse get a TENS unit and apply it to a specimen and watch muscles contract. Applying live electricity to students is asking for a tragic occurence to occur.

Be safe,
R/r 911

 

[rescuecpt]

One very experienced medic that I know actually hit another very experienced medic with an epi pen... they were getting supplies for class and the box marked "epi trainers" actually had a live one in there (someone f'd up and tossed it in because they saw the other epi pens)... so while screwing around, medic #1 accidentally injected medic #2... medic #2 became tachy but was fine, and they both learned a good lesson.

I laughed my butt off, but that's only because I know the two of them and I can picture the scene perfectly, and no one ended up being seriously injured.

 

[c-spine]

Our class was always pretty careful with the epi-pens - one of the class jokers was my patient and I picked up the epi-pen and he got wide-eyed and completely checked it out before I "injected" him with it.

 

[rescuecpt]

It's bad when one instructor epi-pens the other instructor before class.

Sounds like your class was a step ahead of my medics.

 

[MMiz]

I hate to say it, but I've heard of many great instructors having EPI pen injuries. I mean these are some of the best instructors that have been doing this for the longest time.

This goes along with my theory that if you've been a medic long enough, you're going to zap yourself several times with the defib no matter what. I'm not talking direct hits, but touching metal and such.

 

[rescuecpt]

I got zapped while treating a patient that we were pacing... I was doing CPR and the medic had the mmA up so high on the pacer that I was getting electricity through my palms upon compressions.... When I told her it really hurt she turned it down a bit.

 

[Jon]

I hate to say it, but I've heard of many great instructors having EPI pen injuries. I mean these are some of the best instructors that have been doing this for the longest time.

This goes along with my theory that if you've been a medic long enough, you're going to zap yourself several times with the defib no matter what. I'm not talking direct hits, but touching metal and such.

A FDNY EMS instructor auto-injected himself with expired atropine last year, during MARK I kit training.... yet another great moment in EMS education.

 

[gradygirl]

a guy i know of went to work drunk one day. he went into the bathroom to "freshen" himself up by splashing some water on his face and trying to mask the alcohol with a mint breath spray...too bad it was actually nitro. :blush: