19 day EMT course?

hometownmedic5

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There are few, if any, factors more injurious to our professional image than taking an already short and painfully dumbed down course and making it shorter, simpler, and forcing it down like a hot dog eating contest.

That being said, they aren't going anywhere so maybe I just have to learn to accept that they will continue to exist against my objections. If you are capable of taking a relatively large quantity of information, swallowing it like a pelican, and regurgitating it up whole a short time later, you will probably succeed. These emt boot camps don't really give you time to actually understand and make connections, so its all about rote memorization and regurgitation. That either firs with your educatinonal style or not.
 
OP
Chuckleface

Chuckleface

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There are few, if any, factors more injurious to our professional image than taking an already short and painfully dumbed down course and making it shorter, simpler, and forcing it down like a hot dog eating contest.

That being said, they aren't going anywhere so maybe I just have to learn to accept that they will continue to exist against my objections. If you are capable of taking a relatively large quantity of information, swallowing it like a pelican, and regurgitating it up whole a short time later, you will probably succeed. These emt boot camps don't really give you time to actually understand and make connections, so its all about rote memorization and regurgitation. That either firs with your educatinonal style or not.
OK. That's not for me then. ;)

Thanks for the input.
 

hometownmedic5

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Don't make any rash decisions. I'm just one guy with one opinion. Wait for a few of the fellas to come along and add their two cents. Statistically, at least one person will have a directly contradictory opinion presented in an equally convincing manner.
 

VentMonkey

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Remember there are a gazillion ways to skin a cat. EMT is essentially the introductory course to EMS in general.

I took a month-long EMT class for my basic. IIRC, it was 5 nights/ week, and a skills day on Saturday. Whatever it was, it gave you (me) what you (I) needed to meet the minimum EMT requirements, which is exactly what most EMT schools, or courses meet...the minimum. There was no mandated NREMT when I got my basic.

Are there some more in-depth, or better paced programs? Sure, but again, EMT being the first in line of "feelers" for the medical, or public service arenas, respectively. One could argue either case for a longer, more professional format vs. what's currently, and predominantly out there. Most courses are as good as their instructors instruct, and moreover, how well the class, and its individuals take the material seriously, and digest it.

@hometownmedic5's post was pretty good, his analogies while true, still managed to bring a smile to my face; I never got the boot camp vibe from my condensed course, though. EMT school is hardly school.

You do have to absorb the material, but once you have your card, and get a job you'll see the realities of this field come to fruition; right, wrong, good, bad, and indifferent. This is typically where you truly find your career path, and go from there.

For now, keep looking around, and go with whatever program, school, or course best suits you. EMT courses hardly make or break your intrinsic desires to pursue higher, or further clinical education. Also, their courses all appear a little too rich for my blood.
 

EpiEMS

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I don't think I'll be very convincing, but here goes... I took my initial EMT class in a 20 day program at SOLO in New Hampshire. It was great! My fellow students were college students like myself (at the time), people doing a gap year before medical school, a couple veterans who had been deployed in OIF, and two or three guys who were preparing to do the fire academy. Almost everybody had a college degree, which suggests to me that it was the rare person without good study habits, and I think that is what makes a 20 day course doable. If you're solid in your basic academic skills (arithmetic, composition, study skills, etc.), you can handle a short course. If not, you're putting yourself at risk by not taking a longer class.


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DesertMedic66

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The EMT program I teach skills for is a non-accelerated program. They meet once week for 8 hours for around 20 weeks. So they aren't cutting the hours down they just have you meet up 5 days a week for those 19 days.
 

hometownmedic5

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I use the boot camp analogy because, in my area, that's how these programs are advertised.

I personally believe in a different educational model whereby you take small quantities of information, develop true mastery and understanding and then build on it. While I constantly rail against EMS training as being too shor, too thin, and too skills based; I still believe that a month is not long enough to truly master the information. Sure, success on the board exams is possible, but I don't feel it's an appropriate educational model.

That being said, we all learn differently. This model is awesome for some, but disasterous for others; and as I said, IMNSHO injurious to our professional standing. All in all; it's simply important for you to understand what you're getting yourself into, accurately judging your own abilities, and choosing a program accordingly.
 

EpiEMS

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The EMT program I teach skills for is a non-accelerated program. They meet once week for 8 hours for around 20 weeks. So they aren't cutting the hours down they just have you meet up 5 days a week for those 19 days.
Par exemple (au français), my class ran 8A to 6P Monday to Friday, with Saturdays earmarked for clinicals.

I use the boot camp analogy because, in my area, that's how these programs are advertised.
A fair, if unfortunate, analogy.
 

VentMonkey

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There are few, if any, factors more injurious to our professional image than taking an already short and painfully dumbed down course and making it shorter, simpler, and forcing it down like a hot dog eating contest. If you are capable of taking a relatively large quantity of information, swallowing it like a pelican, and regurgitating it up whole a short time later, you will probably succeed.
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DrParasite

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Very few people care how long your EMT class was, or where you took your class; as long as you passed, and have the cert, that's all an employer will look for.

Will you retain what you learned? maybe..... will you retain it long enough to pass the NREMT? hopefully.

My EMT class is around 220 hours, spread out over a 12+ week schedule, and includes at least 4 hours of reading and homework a week. 19 day, 8 hours a day, is 152 hours..... I don't know what they are skimping on, but it appears they meet the bare minimums, and people have been able to pass.

If you are not working, and can put your entire life on hold for 3 weeks while you take the class, it might not be a bad idea. I know several monday to friday fire academies that do this same schedule (albeit usually for a full month) when they cover EMT class
 

Carlos Danger

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I generally agree that 20 days is not going to provide enough "soak time" for many folks to really digest the material. On the other hand, as @EpiEMS pointed out, these formats are often geared towards better educated, more mature or motivated students, so there's that. Also, while I do think EMT training doesn't always get enough enough credit for the volume of info that has to be learned, it is all basic, skills-based stuff. None of it takes much time for a person of normal intelligence to understand. If someone doesn't become a bonafide expert in basic emergency care during their EMT program, that's OK. They aren't going to kill anybody, and they'll nail it down later, if they even ever use it.

As for the way that such a program might be perceived by the public.....meh, we are talking about the EMT level here, which is basically just advanced first aid and basic ambulance operations. It isn't an academic pursuit no matter how the course is formatted. I think most outsiders get that, if they care enough to even learn about how EMT's are trained. Most could not care less.

Paramedic education is a whole other ballgame, of course.
 

fullcodecpr

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California has a couple accelerated courses like this it comes down to the student and learning styles


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Kuhnz350

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Wow seeing everyone else's stories I feel as though I had the longest course haha. Mine was 6 months. Granted we only met on Mondays and Wednesdays with varying Saturdays.
 

rescue1

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I took my EMT course in college, so it lasted about a semester (4ish months?). I flatter myself that I'm a pretty good EMT, but I attribute that to having great medic parters who were open to teaching, studying stuff on my own, and working in a busy system. I attribute absolutely none of it to my EMT course.

So, if you feel like you can apply yourself at the end of those 3 weeks and make sure that you can fill in your knowledge gaps on your own time after you graduate I'd say go for it. EMT-B is such a scaled down class anyway that I really would be surprised if class time actually made a difference.

That being said, its gonna be a rough 3 weeks. We're all saying EMT is a dumbed down class because we know how much more stuff there is beyond the 220 hours in basic class, but for someone with no background in health care its still going to seem very difficult.
 

NysEms2117

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I have to agree with rescue.. I took my EMT class while working my full time job. I really took it to get a pay raise at work, however now I find myself doing EMS part time. I attribute 90% of my abilities to my partner, and common sense. The other 10% was class, just simply knowing what each item you may need is. Again in my opinion being an EMT-B is nothing more then common sense(nothing less really either). If people bleed address it, can't breathe address it, if you can't address it, call somebody else that can.. I'm really not suprised places offer it in 3 weeks... However that's a whole chapter per day if I remember correctly I had 20(ish) chapters. It will suck, pretty much gaurenteed, if I were you I'd just hope you get a really good partner
 

Qulevrius

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Have any of you heard of this?

https://ncoae.org/

I'd be looking at the North Carolina one. ;)

Any thoughts on it? Does it seem like a good option for someone new to the EMS field and is looking to get his EMT-B?

EDIT: Here's a more direct link: https://ncoae.org/courses-trainings/?_sft_location=north-carolina&_sft_skill=emt-basic-emt-b
A certified EMT class should [typically] have around 120-180 didactic hours. If the class you looked into meets 5-6 days a week, for 8-9 hours a day, and reserves a week for clinicals, then it's a 1st grade math problem. That being said, I had the same accelerated class as @VentMonkey, graduated and had my NREMT within a month. I understand your concerns about the quality of the class vs the money and time you spend on it, just remember that in the end of the day you're the one who's doing the skills and taking the National Registry.
 

AtlasFlyer

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Personally I think it's more about what you do AFTER the class that makes the difference as far as being a "good provider". Passing the test is the same for everyone, regardless of how long the 'class' took. So, get the cert... then what? If you go right from the 'boot camp' class into a job where you're working, using the skills, doing stuff and staying immersed in EMS, you'll be far better off than someone who took the boot camp class and waited 6-10 months before getting a job. You've not used the information, it hasn't had time to fully soak in, "use it or lose it", so to speak. Someone taking a class that lasts a whole semester has more time to spread out their studying and the information can last longer in their memory & brains after the class is over if they don't get a job and 'use it' right away. Even then, someone who took a semester class but doesn't get a job for a year... they're still gonna lose a lot of it too.
 

DrParasite

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Another thought on this: if you work on an ALS ambulance, how important is the education in EMT class? After all, the paramedic is doing the assessment and directing all treatments. I figure maybe a week including lifting and moving devices and best practices, ambulance operations / safe ambulance driving, and intro to EMS, coupled two whole days on how to be the best paramedic assistant out there, and everything else you can learn OTJ or learn how your particular paramedic or agency wants it done. Do you really need so many hours?

Now if your on a BLS 911 truck, or on any truck where you don't have a paramedic to tell you what to do, the rest of the content in the EMT course becomes more relevant. But if we are just going to be training "paramedic helpers," do they really need much education on A&P and all that medical stuff?
 

NysEms2117

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Another thought on this: if you work on an ALS ambulance, how important is the education in EMT class? After all, the paramedic is doing the assessment and directing all treatments. I figure maybe a week including lifting and moving devices and best practices, ambulance operations / safe ambulance driving, and intro to EMS, coupled two whole days on how to be the best paramedic assistant out there, and everything else you can learn OTJ or learn how your particular paramedic or agency wants it done. Do you really need so many hours?
I work on a Critical Care ambulance and my fundamental education was very important(I knew it before going into the EMT class, however they still taught it there). Somebody who knows nothing about healthcare being thrown a BVM on the go in the field doesn't seem very effective to me. Hell some people in my EMT class still couldn't put the mask on properly (they didn't "graduate" or w/e you want to call it). What your saying would require 2 different certifications, which i think is the topic of a few dozen threads.
 

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