Towers hard to access?

D

djones44

Forum Probie
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I am entering a business distributing AEDs to building complexes, and I would like to better understand the issues that might be delaying ambulance response to SCA's.

People in high-rises are said to be hard to access by EMS, what with traffic congestion, multiple towers, computerized entryways, elevators needing fobs, etc. Has this been your experience?

Do EMT's use fire keys for elevator control? Would a PAD in the lobby be a good interim solution toward reducing a victim's waiting period?

Any suggestions much appreciated. - Dwight
 
A common problem I've run into from a dispatch perspective is the simple fact that the callers are often third parties who are not with the patient. For example, security calls us but isn't sure where the patient actually is - what suite or floor. We've had problems with one very large outpatient medical center out here, because we get the actual EMS calls from their security dispatch center on the other side of the country. They used to have problems telling us exactly where the patient was and what was going on, but there have been some talks and they've improved a bit - mostly by transferring us to the person actual calling for our help after giving us basic information.
 
LucidResq said:
A common problem I've run into from a dispatch perspective is the simple fact that the callers are often third parties who are not with the patient. For example, security calls us but isn't sure where the patient actually is - what suite or floor.
Click to expand...

Hopefully that might be updated or resolved while enroute?

We've had problems with one very large outpatient medical center out here, because we get the actual EMS calls from their security dispatch center on the other side of the country. They used to have problems telling us exactly where the patient was and what was going on, but there have been some talks and they've improved a bit - mostly by transferring us to the person actual calling for our help after giving us basic information.
Click to expand...

Do you dispatch a response in the meantime - does it result in net time added? SCA's are so unforgiving time-wise.

I very much appreciate hearing from the dispatch side of things.
Click to expand...
 
djones44 said:
Hopefully that might be updated or resolved while enroute?



Do you dispatch a response in the meantime - does it result in net time added? SCA's are so unforgiving time-wise.

I very much appreciate hearing from the dispatch side of things.
Click to expand...

I personally haven't taken a cardiac arrest call inside any kind of commercial building, FYI, but yes, once we have a pretty good location for any EMS call, we get them going and just try to work with the caller to get a better location as they're headed in that direction. Pinpoint it down as much as possible for responding units. For example, people often don't know the address of the Subway they're in, but can give me major cross streets... then I can get a call in for that intersection... then usually get the specific corner of the intersection (NE, SW, etc) or nearby landmarks, and using mapping and my resources determine the exact address myself.

Another issue with any kind of multi-unit building.. whether residential or commercial... is when our caller can't tell us their location - especially when they call from a cell phone. As you can imagine, in cardiac arrest situations, it can be very difficult to get the caller, often a hysterical friend or family member, to calm down enough to tell us where they are.

In such a situation, we can sometimes obtain the coordinates of a phone triangulated from the towers, but first of all this is obviously not fail-proof (sometimes inaccurate, sometimes can't even get back coordinates at all)... but even with a really good set of coordinates... a lat/long obviously doesn't tell you whether someone's on the first floor or the 22nd. Being around or inside such large buildings can hinder this process in the first place too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Map of where its located, clear instructions on how to use it. Maybe you could offer a free CPR class to the employees.

EMS doesnt save cardiac arrest patients, bystanders do.
 
CAOX3 said:
Map of where its located, clear instructions on how to use it. Maybe you could offer a free CPR class to the employees.
Click to expand...

The approach I'm taking is that every high-rise should have an AED in its lobby. When the building's worth $20M what's $2K for a device that addresses the time barrier EMS responders can't be expected to always meet.

If it's a fixture in the lobby every time you take the elevator, then maybe you can discuss its presence with your fellow travelers instead of the weather? (Education)

EMS doesn't save cardiac arrest patients, bystanders do.
Click to expand...

I see it as a partnership. Bystanders don't require training for an AED, supposedly, but the guy at the security station - what if he had EMT status and a monitor/defibrillator on site? Get inside the circle of deathh, as I term it.

Maybe not for 3 story apt. buildings, but big malls, multiple towers, huge buildings - why not? The risk of SCA death there is a hundred times the risk of fire death, and yet they send fire trucks to SCA's. What's wrong with that picture?
 
djones44 said:
The approach I'm taking is that every high-rise should have an AED in its lobby.
Click to expand...

I disagree. If you have it in the lobby those best able to use it have to get to IT.

Every ELEVATOR should have an AED in it so IT can get dispatched quickly TO someone in trouble, no matter the floor.

almost anyone can apply it; IF they have one nearby. The idea is to GET one nearby.
 
firetender said:
I disagree. If you have it in the lobby those best able to use it have to get to IT.

Every ELEVATOR should have an AED in it so IT can get dispatched quickly TO someone in trouble, no matter the floor.

almost anyone can apply it; IF they have one nearby. The idea is to GET one nearby.
Click to expand...

That suggestion is pure genius, which is why I started a company to pursue it. See www.elevaed.com

ElevAED has applied to the ASME, the elevator regulators who will rule on it next year. But in the meantime I'm proposing one in every lobby (of towers) as the next best thing for proximity, delivery and education around its presence.

Thank you for corroborating my thinking.
 
djones44 said:
That suggestion is pure genius, which is why I started a company to pursue it. See www.elevaed.com

ElevAED has applied to the ASME, the elevator regulators who will rule on it next year. But in the meantime I'm proposing one in every lobby (of towers) as the next best thing for proximity, delivery and education around its presence.

Thank you for corroborating my thinking.
Click to expand...

What's my cut? Genius ain't free.

Though I gotta give you credit; you built that web page pretty fast based on my idea!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
djones44 said:
I see it as a partnership. Bystanders don't require training for an AED, supposedly, but the guy at the security station - what if he had EMT status and a monitor/defibrillator on site? Get inside the circle of deathh, as I term it.
Click to expand...

EMT is not necessary. Simple CPR with AED would be enough and more cost-effective. No need for medical direction or anything like that. In a cardiac arrest scenario, there is almost no difference between an EMT and a bystander trained in CPR/AED. The only thing an EMT could do in addition is drop an airway and use a BVM... which likely won't make a big difference especially for the very first response.

What about having designated emergency response people (or a few) on each floor? At least one person trained in CPR/AED, that is designated to be responsible for such situations... someone that knows the address and exact floor/suite number and is trained in CPR/AED. They'd be helpful even if just handing someone a business card with the address, instructing them of the suite number and having them call 911, and then initiating CPR and AED.

I think having such a program would alleviate some of the chaos. If there's one trustworthy person on a floor, who will take charge of such a situation and just make sure 911 is dialed, an AED is grabbed, and CPR/defib is started as smoothly as possible... it could make a big difference.

Taking those duties further, they could work on prevention, awareness, and CPR/AED training programs within their organizations.

For some reason, Rick Rescorla (security guard of 9/11 fame) comes to mind in this discussion. Although a completely different situation, I feel that having such people willing to stand up in chaos and bring order could make a huge difference and save lives. I don't think one would have to be an extraordinary war hero to take up such a position... just someone who could invest some time in some pre-planning, keep their cool in an emergency and take charge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top