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scene safety-- what not to do

Discussion in 'BLS Discussion' started by uhbt420, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. uhbt420

    uhbt420 New Member

    Location:
    Orange County, California
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    a very sad and preventable death

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvDEVhR7u4U[/YOUTUBE]
  2. Linuss

    Linuss New Member

    Location:
    DFW
    After doing some searching, there was no Illinois state officer that died that year, let alone in that type of scenario. From what I've seen, it's just training.... a very well staged and shot training video, but still staged.


    Patch image: Illinois State Police, IL Trooper Erin Sweeney Hehl
    Illinois State Police, IL
    EOW: Thursday, October 30, 1997

    Cause of Death: Aircraft accident
    Patch image: Illinois State Police, IL Master Sergeant Stanley W. Talbot
    Illinois State Police, IL
    EOW: Saturday, June 23, 2001

    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
    Patch image: Illinois State Police, IL Sergeant Rodney Todd Miller
    Illinois State Police, IL
    EOW: Friday, May 12, 2006
    Cause of Death: Automobile accident

    Patch image: Illinois State Police, IL Trooper Brian Carl McMillen
    Illinois State Police, IL
    EOW: Sunday, October 28, 2007
    Cause of Death: Vehicular assault
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2010
  3. JPINFV

    JPINFV Gadfly

    Location:
    404: No Meme Found
    I've actually been doing some Googling on the video and based on some of the threads I saw and since there is no actual news articles connected with this, it does appear that this was a very well staged training video. Additionally, if the officer did die with the accident occuring in 2000, was he the officer that died in 2001, 2003, 2006, or 2007?
    http://www.isp.state.il.us/aboutisp/memorial.cfm
  4. uhbt420

    uhbt420 New Member

    Location:
    Orange County, California
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    i just checked over at another ems forum where this was posted, and the op (and subsequent comments) are all under the impression that it is real.

    not sayin your wrong linuss, either way this is an important reminder for scene safety.
  5. JPINFV

    JPINFV Gadfly

    Location:
    404: No Meme Found
    It can be a training video and an important reminder, but what sources are everyone else using to justify their stance? What source do people have that says the officer died? Why are there no news stories about this, the internet wasn't an infant in 2000, so there should still be some things coming up on it.
  6. firetender

    firetender Active Member

    Location:
    Maui, HI
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Paramedic
    Who cares?

    If you come across an MVA involving a truck with gas clearly escaping from a huge canister nearby, don't put yourself in danger until you read the label!
  7. uhbt420

    uhbt420 New Member

    Location:
    Orange County, California
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    well real or otherwise it's an important reminder to emergency personnel.

    here are the state trooper's errors:

    - not backing away to a safe distance once the vapor became visible

    - assuming it was smoke when signs pointed to something much more sinister: white vapor, large tank leaking, and unconscious person laying in the middle of the road

    - running to help when he should have waited for fire to clear the scene

    Fire department didn't do a very good job either:

    - parked way too close to the vapor, even when the body of the state trooper they just talked to was right there

    - didn't put protective gear on in the rig. what if it was a corrosive substance?

    at least they came out with their BA's on, but if they had parked any closer the whole thing would go from tragedy to clusterfudge.

    the ambulance crew did the sensible thing by staying away from the contaminated scene. but dont tell me that half the emts in this country would be scrambling to help just like the trooper did.
  8. uhbt420

    uhbt420 New Member

    Location:
    Orange County, California
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    also, the fire guys were fiddling with a backboard when they should have been rapidly removing the trooper and the patient away from the source of the hazmat.
  9. Phlipper

    Phlipper New Member

    Location:
    VA
    It's a good training video, as mentioned. Ammonia doesn't incapacitate that quickly. It certainly can incapacitate, as it reacts with the water in the tissues of the trachea, bronchi, alveoli, and so on, and as the tissue breaks down more and more water is released to increase the reaction. But the severe burning in the eyes, mouth, throat, etc has most people scattering quickly before severe damage sets in. He wouldn't have just walked into a cloud and keeled over.

    Good point made in the video, though. Always remember ... "Scene safe? BSI." :p
  10. lightsandsirens5

    lightsandsirens5 Gemeinschaft Oberhaupt Community Leader

    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Paramedic
    Hey, real or not, it is a good training video. And it could very easily happen.
  11. Cohn

    Cohn New Member

    Location:
    Sahuarita, Arizona
    lol actually I might be the reason why this making the rounds on here...

    I posted this vid on my face book after watching it in my hazmat class.
  12. Cohn

    Cohn New Member

    Location:
    Sahuarita, Arizona
    I can argue with you all day about it not incapacitating that quickly.

    But I will restrain myself.
  13. Cohn

    Cohn New Member

    Location:
    Sahuarita, Arizona
    You got to also criticize the EMS that showed up... Of course pulling up right next to the fire truck.
  14. EMT-IT753

    EMT-IT753 New Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Paramedic
    I agree with Cohn

    If you seriously think ammonia doesn't capacitate that quickly, you may not have inhaled any. I have done it once while working on a farm. Once breath knocked the tar out of me and had me scrambling for fresh air. The trooper in this video, whether it was real or staged, was breathing the ammonia for plenty of time to constrict the lungs and make him unresponsive.
  15. lightsandsirens5

    lightsandsirens5 Gemeinschaft Oberhaupt Community Leader

    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Paramedic
    That would be incapacitate, right?

    I agree with you. I took a nice big breath of that stuff once out of an anhydrous tank. My gosh. I thought I was going to die. All you can think about is getting another breath. So of course the first thing I did was breathe out and then gasp again. By that time I was already on my way out of the worst of it, so I got more O2. But I can easily how that knocked the trooper down so fast. Four, five maybe six breaths you would be hurting so bad already that he might have already been disoriented.Add to that he is fixated on the guy in the road, might not have realized he was starting to suffocate after the first breath.

    I'm not saying this video is either real or staged. I'm just trying to show how fast anhydrous ammonia can incapacitate.
  16. hurt88

    hurt88 New Member

    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    I don't know a whole lot about Anhydrous Ammonia but our instructor told us that if you walk into a cloud of that like the trooper did then it would instantly blind you and the trooper didn't seem to be effected at all by his eyes just the coughing.

    Either way if its just a staged training video or not it was very well done because I thought it was real just watching it at first before reading all of the comments and it really makes you sit back and think on how you really have watch out for yourself when on scene. Good video
  17. uhbt420

    uhbt420 New Member

    Location:
    Orange County, California
    EMS Training:
    EMT-Basic
    Well here's the anhydrous ammonia MSDS
    http://www.tannerind.com/anhydrous-msds.html

    also, gotta be honest, im not so sure this is just a training exercise. especially with the part where the mic cuts in and out because the trooper is "trying to breathe." just looks way too real.
  18. Phlipper

    Phlipper New Member

    Location:
    VA
    Talked to a former warehouse worker this morning who I knew had been exposed to an ammonia cloud. His experience bears out exactly what I'd read or been told previously. Instant intense burning and coughing had everyone running away asap, and (his words) " ... only Chuck Norris or a retard would stand in the cloud long enough to choke out if there was a way out." :p And troopers aren't generally known to be either, entirely.
  19. medic417

    medic417 The Truth Provider

    Actually the concentration would play a large part in how it affected you. Most houses used to have ammonia in the refrigerator and also in the refrigerated air conditioner. It was replaced because of the danger with some good ole ozone depleting stuff instead so rather than kill a few at a time just wipe out the whole planet over time.
  20. Cohn

    Cohn New Member

    Location:
    Sahuarita, Arizona
    There's a name we call law enforcement officers in HazMat....



    Blue Canaries

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