CISM/Peer Counseling Discussion

PotatoMedic

PotatoMedic

Has no idea what I'm doing.
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MrJones said:
So, if you can't say anything, why did you tease the story?
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It is good to vent and get things off ones chest. To talk to others helps decompress and promotes good mental health. Yeah I am wondering what happened too. But maybe he needed to just tell someone about the crappy call but also knows there is only so much he can say.
 
FireWA1 said:
It is good to vent and get things off ones chest. To talk to others helps decompress and promotes good mental health. Yeah I am wondering what happened too. But maybe he needed to just tell someone about the crappy call but also knows there is only so much he can say.
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That's what close friends/confidants are for. Not a relatively anonymous internet forum, where one doesn't know who might be participating.
 
MrJones said:
That's what close friends/confidants are for. Not a relatively anonymous internet forum, where one doesn't know who might be participating.
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Honestly, I would never dump details of a traumatic event on my close friends or family who are not in EMS and would not understand anyway. Sometimes the anonymity can be a good thing, as one is able to confide thier experiences and feelings without fear of judgement.
 
redundantbassist said:
Honestly, I would never dump details of a traumatic event on my close friends or family who are not in EMS and would not understand anyway. Sometimes the anonymity can be a good thing, as one is able to confide thier experiences and feelings without fear of judgement.
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You're only hurting yourself if you don't have someone you can confide in, vent to, and use as a sounding board.

But, what do I know? I'm only a peer counselor for a crisis intervention service....
 
What does having someone in person have to do with talking about calls here though? Having one doesn't mean you cant have the other.
 
MrJones said:
You're only hurting yourself if you don't have someone you can confide in, vent to, and use as a sounding board.

But, what do I know? I'm only a peer counselor for a crisis intervention service....
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And all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual.

I truly respect and appriciate anyone that is willing to talk to their coworkers and on minor incidents it can be helpful. But when people experience a bad incident that might be a psychological trigger is when you need professional counseling.

I will say you are right it is good to have someone you can go to. But if someone wants to be able to vent relatively anonymously online that is not bad either.
 
MrJones said:
But, what do I know? I'm only a peer counselor for a crisis intervention service....
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What do you know? What does that title actually entail? Are you an LPC? Do you have a psychology degree specialized in PTSD or something similar? Or did you sit in an 8 to 40 hour class telling you how to listen to people?
 
FireWA1 said:
And all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual....
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That's an interesting hypothesis. Would you mind sharing a few citations so that I can read up on some of that science?
 
MrJones said:
That's an interesting hypothesis. Would you mind sharing a few citations so that I can read up on some of that science?
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Szumilas, M. W. (2010). Psychological debriefing in schools. Canadian Medical Association Journal, 182(9), 883-884.
Chae, M. H. (2013). Police suicide: Prevalence, risk, and protective factors. American Journal of Police, 36(1), 91- 118.

Part of the problem is that there is no research on how EMS personnel are affected by their job and what types of mental health care are effective. So what we have to do is use research that can parallel the types of stress we see. Luckily there has been some research with police on stress so that gives us some starting ground but again, it is focused on the job of PD. What I do like about the Chae article is that it does give some interesting ideas that can help with promoting good mental health. And the Szumilas is talking about traumatic events that occur in school. It does talk about adults slightly but focuses on children so not the best parallel. But the main reason I used it was of this interesting things I found, which was that it states that CISM/CISD has not been found to be beneficial and in some cases detrimental to mental health and psychological healing.

The problem with a single pathway on how to deal with stress for all employees is that EVERYONE is different and processes traumatic events differently. Some people just need to carry on with life and seem to be ok. Others need to talk about it with a group. Other need to confide in a close friend. Some just vent online. And who knows how else.

I am happy to see that employers are finally realizing that mental health is a problem and that it needs to be address. I am VERY HAPPY that companies like yours are asking people to be peer counselors to give a starting point into getting help. What I am disappointed in seeing is that companies are at times FORCING people to attend CISM/CISD which is completely the wrong thing to do. It can be helpful for some but for others it can be the trigger that send them into deep depression and possibly killing themselves.

I do applaud you in being a peer counselor and believe you will help people deal with stressful issues. I just know that you sadly wont be the answer for everyone.

I do have a few more editorials on mental health but these are the two big Journals I used when I wrote my short paper on mental health in EMS.
 
FireWA1 said:
The problem with a single pathway on how to deal with stress for all employees is that EVERYONE is different and processes traumatic events differently. Some people just need to carry on with life and seem to be ok. Others need to talk about it with a group. Other need to confide in a close friend. Some just vent online. And who knows how else.
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This was exactly what I was thinking. Some people are able to process things better than others. Some only need one pathway while others may need a few. It is not up to us to disparage or judge how one copes. If anything, we should be the last to judge or comment on how someone is "venting". We're the ones that should be there before anyone else because we have lived it. We "get it".
 
FireWA1 said:
Szumilas, M. W. (2010). Psychological debriefing in schools. Canadian Medical Association Journal, 182(9), 883-884.
Chae, M. H. (2013). Police suicide: Prevalence, risk, and protective factors. American Journal of Police, 36(1), 91- 118.
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I've only had time to briefly glance through these two studies, but that perusal raises a question - are you sure that the science you have read questions the value of peer counselors and not the Critical Incident Stress Management model? I only ask because your 1st citation doesn't speak to peer counseling at all, and your second citation speaks favorably of peer counseling programs.
 
MrJones said:
You're only hurting yourself if you don't have someone you can confide in, vent to, and use as a sounding board.

But, what do I know? I'm only a peer counselor for a crisis intervention service....
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I am lucky enough to have a significant other in EMS who I can talk to openly about sensitive topics. But some people don't, and having someone to talk to who understands and shares the same experience can mean a lot to them, even if they are a stranger.
 
MrJones said:
I've only had time to briefly glance through these two studies, but that perusal raises a question - are you sure that the science you have read questions the value of peer counselors and not the Critical Incident Stress Management model? I only ask because your 1st citation doesn't speak to peer counseling at all, and your second citation speaks favorably of peer counseling programs.
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??
 
MrJones said:
??
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I'm sorry I don't live on my computer.

True the first does not talk about peer counselors. But what it does say is that CISM that is not lead by someone who is a licensed counsellor or therapist is harmful.

And yes the other does say peer counseling is good as a part of mental health.

This whole started because you put down a member here for talking about a bad call and when we suggested maybe they were just venting a little you put them down for not doing it the way you would do it.

I personally would consider people here my peers. I may only know people here on a very superficial level but it is still a group of people who understand the profession.

And if you have paid attention I have not put down peer counselors. In fact I have promoted them as an option for mental health care.
 
FireWA1 said:
I'm sorry I don't live on my computer.
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The amount of time you spend on the computer - and the number of times you visited this site and posted in other threads since my response to you - isn't an issue. I was simply interested in your take on the difference between what you claimed and the science you provided to support that claim.

True the first does not talk about peer counselors. But what it does say is that CISM that is not lead by someone who is a licensed counsellor or therapist is harmful.
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That was never an issue, either, as nowhere did I mention CISM. Rather, my statement that I am a peer counselor inspired your response that ...all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual."

And yes the other does say peer counseling is good as a part of mental health.
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Interesting. That seems to refute your original assertion that "...all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual."

This whole started because you put down a member here for talking about a bad call and when we suggested maybe they were just venting a little you put them down for not doing it the way you would do it.
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No, this whole thing started when I asked a member why he teased a story he couldn't finish, which led to a brief discussion on the merits of confidants vs. anonymous internet 'friends'.

I personally would consider people here my peers. I may only know people here on a very superficial level but it is still a group of people who understand the profession.
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I agree to a point. There's quite a bit I would willingly share, and many requests I might make, but turning to people I know superficially with a confidence that rightly should be shared with a close confidant is not on the list.

And if you have paid attention I have not put down peer counselors. In fact I have promoted them as an option for mental health care.
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Interesting. That seems to refute your original assertion that "...all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual." That's not to say that you haven't "...promoted them as an option for mental health care" in a separate thread that I hadn't noticed, mind you. I don't live on my computer after all. ;)

So, how 'bout we just agree to disagree on this one. Unless, of course, you want to provide any additional studies that support your original assertion, in which case I will be happy to debate the topic with you.
 
I would imagine that the most important training a peer counselor could receive is when to refer someone to a professional. At best, a peer counselor is a safe and empathetic ear when things get tough.
However, I know that several "peer counselors" I know are the type who want to have answers/fix people and will overreach their role.
 
I can see the t-shirt now....

Peer Counseling:
Doing the same job as a psychologist but in the front seat of an ambulance at 70 mph!!!
 
MrJones said:
The amount of time you spend on the computer - and the number of times you visited this site and posted in other threads since my response to you - isn't an issue. I was simply interested in your take on the difference between what you claimed and the science you provided to support that claim.


Interesting. That seems to refute your original assertion that "...all the science that I have read is that a peer counselor that has no real education (note not "training") in counseling is not only ineffective but possibly detrimental in the long run to the traumatized individual." That's not to say that you haven't "...promoted them as an option for mental health care" in a separate thread that I hadn't noticed, mind you.
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o_O

You sound like a neurotic stalker.
 
MrJones said:
You're only hurting yourself if you don't have someone you can confide in, vent to, and use as a sounding board.

But, what do I know? I'm only a peer counselor for a crisis intervention service....
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What does that mean?
 
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