anyone have an issue with Sandy Hook?

[huskyfan68]

Just asking in general from an EMS perspective... take a look at the videos from the scene (mostly by helicopter)- Call goes out for 20+ children shot ? Where are all the ambulances trying to get to the scene?
Where are the medivacs?
Who was sent in to triage 20+ people
Who pronounced them?

I'm just trying to get a handle on how things were set in motion..... I'm not saying nothing happened- but does it not seem like a very strange response?
This is not a knock on any responding parties- I'm just trying to understand what I saw.....

 

[adamjh3]

Briefly, we're not armed, we're not trained to deal with active shooters.

 

[MagicTyler]

Newtown, CT has 27,560 people, I can't imagine they have a huge number of ambulances or police on duty at one time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown,_Connecticut

 

[Smoke14]

I am not going to speculate on the events of Sandy Hook.

I will say that both of our SWAT teams have two armed medics as team members.

 

[epipusher]

I am not going to speculate on the events of Sandy Hook.

I will say that both of our SWAT teams have two armed medics as team members.

And where is this?

 

[adamjh3]

I will say that both of our SWAT teams have two armed medics as team members.

But that's the exception rather than the rule (for medics).

 

[DesertMedic66]

Briefly, we're not armed, we're not trained to deal with active shooters.

This. When there is an active shooter we do not go in. Police handle the gunman. Once the scene has been secured then we can start triaging, treatments, and transport if necessary.

 

[mycrofft]

Multiple MEDEVACS means midairs, people walking into tail rotors, and local EMS systems and medical facilities geared up for it. I doubt ROLE 3 at Kandahar can simultaneously and equally accomodate two choppers at once without risk or using the soccer field nearby as an expedient LZ or something.

 

[Veneficus]

Just asking in general from an EMS perspective... take a look at the videos from the scene (mostly by helicopter)- Call goes out for 20+ children shot ? Where are all the ambulances trying to get to the scene?
Where are the medivacs?
Who was sent in to triage 20+ people
Who pronounced them?

I'm just trying to get a handle on how things were set in motion..... I'm not saying nothing happened- but does it not seem like a very strange response?
This is not a knock on any responding parties- I'm just trying to understand what I saw.....

Before I attempt to answer this. What exactly is your role in EMS or emergency response?

 

[DrParasite]

I will say that both of our SWAT teams have two armed medics as team members.

yeah, to look after your SWAT team. if it's an active scene, they are functioning solely as SWAT team members not medics. once their is confirmation that the threat has been neutralized, then they might do medical stuff, but it's more likely that the scene will be considered secure and EMS will be allowed it.

You want to run into an active shooter scene? knock yourself out. I'll be a block or two away around the corner behind a really big tree waiting for the shooting to stop, and for PD to say it's safe for me to enter so I can do my job. After all, they can shoot back if they come under fire, I can just run really really fast and put as much stuff between myself and the shooter.

 

[Rialaigh]

If I am not mistaken all the ambulances were stopped by police prior to entering the scene. I believe the police responding did the triage and realize that everyone was dead, no one was viable. It was not a matter of people not rushing to the scene. They were stopped outside of the police boundries and I believe the police did an excellent job of minimizing PTSD and emotional damage. There were not a lot of people allowed in to see the death. They didn't let medics just walk into the school building.

 

[rwik123]

This. When there is an active shooter we do not go in. Police handle the gunman. Once the scene has been secured then we can start triaging, treatments, and transport if necessary.

Homeland security's manual on active shooter response begs to differ, but I agree with you.

 

[ffemt8978]

Homeland security's manual on active shooter response begs to differ, but I agree with you.

So Homeland Security is saying that unarmed EMS personnel are to enter an active shooter scene?!? :wacko:

 

[EpiEMS]

Homeland security's manual on active shooter response begs to differ, but I agree with you.

I did a quick Google, but couldn't find anything fitting that description focused on EMS. Do you have a link?

Is it possible that they're referring to the "warm zone" rather than the "hot zone"?

 

[Meursault]

Is it possible that they're referring to the "warm zone" rather than the "hot zone"?

My agency reviewed their plans with us after Sandy Hook. In an active shooter incident, the expectation is that as soon as they've more or less contained the shooter (the hot zone), SWAT team members will escort EMTs into the scene (the warm zone) to start retrieving patients for treatment outside, without concern for triage beyond viable/nonviable. I don't know (or much care) what DHS has to say on the matter.

 

[rwik123]

I did a quick Google, but couldn't find anything fitting that description focused on EMS. Do you have a link?

Is it possible that they're referring to the "warm zone" rather than the "hot zone"?

Looking for the link now. I attended a lecture at the NCEMSF conference where a speaker cited it basically saying that DHS recommended EMS attaching with the entry team and treating.

Obviously this isn't going to happen.

He presented the idea of EMS setting up a patient collection point inside the warm zone where fire retrieves the patients and brings them to this PD protected point. They can then egress out a door or window with direct line of site to the treatment location a certain distance away. Patients are categorized into 3 basic categories. Unharmed, red patients who are going to die/dead with GSW either to the chest or head, and those with controllable hemorrhaging in extremities. The last category are the patients who need to be targeted. Traige, TQ, move on. They have the ability to die, but with quick hemorrhage control they are easily saved.

Best case scenario is we just train all of PD in basic hemorrhage control ect, and we really wouldn't ever need to enter an active scene. Although PD will generally insist they are not interested in med stuff, just neutralizing the threat.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Personally, i think part of being LEO should be CLS/EFR training. i have treated trauma injuries while under fire, it isnt difficult. More Tac Medics in the community, more EFR training for teachers. More firepower to the PD's is not the answer....i know ICE agents in Manhattan that couldnt hit a life size targey at 25 meters, let alone put down an active shooter. one only needs to look at the LAPD and SBSO vs Chris "failure as a sailor/cop" Dorner to see that cops with automatic weapons is a not gonna make the public safer.

 

[NJEMT95]

In terms of resources immediately available, the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps has 3 rigs. (http://newtown-ambulance.org/apparatus.html)
Since it's a volunteer system, there was probably 1-2 in service at the time, but I'm sure all 3 rigs and additional EMTs showed up for this.
In addition, I remember seeing pictures of mutual aid rigs from neighboring towns and AMR.
But unfortunately, no matter what resources were available, there was little for them to do.