EMT-P as M.D.
- Thread starter hotzelj
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And I'd like to be rich, good looking, and omnipotent... 
I can see it if proper prereqs are met from the PA-C level, but never from the EMT-P level. There is far too much to study for that. That also being said, you could conceivably have M.D.s with 2yrs 3mos of schooling... (3mos EMT-P school, 2yrs of "med" school) That's scary in it's self...
I can see it if proper prereqs are met from the PA-C level, but never from the EMT-P level. There is far too much to study for that. That also being said, you could conceivably have M.D.s with 2yrs 3mos of schooling... (3mos EMT-P school, 2yrs of "med" school) That's scary in it's self...
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So, you want to take a two year program (that may only be six months in some places or may not be accredited at all), give them another two years of schooling and two years residency and have it replace a 4 year undergrad program in pre-med, medical school and residency program?
Sasha
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Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.
You're joking, right?
You're joking, right?
HotelCo
Forum Deputy Chief
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So, you want to take a two year program (that may only be six months in some places or may not be accredited at all), give them another two years of schooling and two years residency and have it replace a 4 year undergrad program in pre-med, medical school and residency program?
You act like it's not a good idea... ^_^
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I was just trying to clarify what the OP wanted...
We've got medic mills, why not MD mills?
Meursault
Organic Mechanic
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Now that is a first post. No questions, no introductions, just a laughably bad idea presented completely in earnest.
Let's see if he can follow through.
Let's see if he can follow through.
HotelCo
Forum Deputy Chief
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I was just trying to clarify what the OP wanted...
We've got medic mills, why not MD mills?
What's the worst that could happen?
(In case you all didn't know, that's sarcasm)
This should be the minimum to be a Paramedic which would then bring it closer to what some healthcare professions require and still less the requirements of many.
I was just trying to clarify what the OP wanted...
We've got medic mills, why not MD mills?
We do have a couple of MD mills (not much shorter just easier entrance) and their grads are working as EMTs or Phlebotomists if they get the additional training for the certs.
you know in total to be an attending in EM is 12 years.
4 years BA or BS (need Gen Chem, Intro Bio, Calc, Orgo, Physics, and English) <- not required to be a medic
4 year MD or DO <-nearly impossible to compress as you are learning everything needed to be a doctor
4 year residency in EM <-good luck compressing that, most residents spend their life in the hospital already.
4 years BA or BS (need Gen Chem, Intro Bio, Calc, Orgo, Physics, and English) <- not required to be a medic
4 year MD or DO <-nearly impossible to compress as you are learning everything needed to be a doctor
4 year residency in EM <-good luck compressing that, most residents spend their life in the hospital already.
EMTinNEPA
Guess who's back...
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As long as we're in dream-land, I would like...
1. A medic cert
2. A job as a medic making $150k a year (working only a 24 and a 16 every week)
3. To work for a company that will buy me three new uniforms every six months
4. To have the company match my 401k contribution at a 4:1 ratio
5. Free health insurance through the company with no deductible
6. 10% cost of living raises every year
7. A pony on my one year anniversary with the company
1. A medic cert
2. A job as a medic making $150k a year (working only a 24 and a 16 every week)
3. To work for a company that will buy me three new uniforms every six months
4. To have the company match my 401k contribution at a 4:1 ratio
5. Free health insurance through the company with no deductible
6. 10% cost of living raises every year
7. A pony on my one year anniversary with the company
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Negative?
Do you know the educational and residency requirements of a doctor? silver did a nice general outline if you don't know.
How do you compare that to what a Paramedic cert requires? What you stated doesn't even come close to a Physician Assistant in many states.
HotelCo
Forum Deputy Chief
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How so? You want to take what is basically a 12 year program and condense it down to around 4 years all based upon a certification that may or may not even meet the entrance requirements to a real college program?
But let me ask you this...upon what basis do you envision your program would be a good idea? How would you ensure that the student has the minimum knowledge required to pass the certification and exam boards, so that they are not a risk to their patients?
And, after these requirements, many physicians will spend another 3 - 5 years in Fellowships to specialize.
The Physician's Assistant will sometimes spend another 18 - 24 months after 6 years of education to specialize in EM or whatever.
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Maybe I should re-state. Perhaps most come from a different thinking of the education of "Paramedic."
First Responder: 1 Month education
EMT-Basic: 3 Month education
EMT-Paramedic: 2 Years education
EMT-Paramedic P.A.: 3 Years education
EMT-Paramedic P.A. Residency: 2 Years Education
EMT-M.D.: 2 Years education
EMT-M.D. EM: 2 Years education
9 Years and 4 Months of MEDICAL education. Anyone doing this program would have to already have a degree in general education, math, science, and bio-physiology. Thus, 4 more years of non-medical education.
So, add 4 Years to 9 Years and you get 13 Years - beat that 12 Year doctors.
I don't think the technical side of medicine takes all that long, it's simply information, it's the clinical/theory-application in the real world that takes the time to master. For some people, the technical information takes a lot of time to learn, while for others it is quick and easy. For almost everyone though, the clinical will take the longest, and I think that is where the Gold Standard in the Level of Care is found. This is no suprise to any of you right? As a newbie Paramedic you knew the technical side, but unless you were working as an EMT Basic while going to school, you didn't have the clinical experiance required to increase the level of care.
I am not trying to ask for an M.D. mill. My definition of an Emergency Physician is different than anothers. An E.M.D. to me is a field doctor, who can do what is needed out in the field in a way that is higher than pre-hospital ALS (paramedic), but is not the same as a GP or Family Practice doctor.
Please know I understand the great deal of knowledge required and that medicine is not something to be done in haste. One clarifying point is that I don't care for "intermediates" in the EMS chain. Either be a basic person or be a paramedic, and everyone should be a paramedic if you're going to be in EMS. I also think that a "paramedic" should rise at least half-way to being a P.A. That way, the "next level of training" in EMS would not be a leap, but just more technical, theoretical, and clinical education.
I guess my point was I'd like the EMT profession to be integrated into the medical profession, the medical schools, boards, etc. I'd like the EMTs to be able to go from First Responder, EMT Basic, EMT Paramedic, PA, MD - all with a specialization in emergency medicine.
First Responder: 1 Month education
EMT-Basic: 3 Month education
EMT-Paramedic: 2 Years education
EMT-Paramedic P.A.: 3 Years education
EMT-Paramedic P.A. Residency: 2 Years Education
EMT-M.D.: 2 Years education
EMT-M.D. EM: 2 Years education
9 Years and 4 Months of MEDICAL education. Anyone doing this program would have to already have a degree in general education, math, science, and bio-physiology. Thus, 4 more years of non-medical education.
So, add 4 Years to 9 Years and you get 13 Years - beat that 12 Year doctors.
I don't think the technical side of medicine takes all that long, it's simply information, it's the clinical/theory-application in the real world that takes the time to master. For some people, the technical information takes a lot of time to learn, while for others it is quick and easy. For almost everyone though, the clinical will take the longest, and I think that is where the Gold Standard in the Level of Care is found. This is no suprise to any of you right? As a newbie Paramedic you knew the technical side, but unless you were working as an EMT Basic while going to school, you didn't have the clinical experiance required to increase the level of care.
I am not trying to ask for an M.D. mill. My definition of an Emergency Physician is different than anothers. An E.M.D. to me is a field doctor, who can do what is needed out in the field in a way that is higher than pre-hospital ALS (paramedic), but is not the same as a GP or Family Practice doctor.
Please know I understand the great deal of knowledge required and that medicine is not something to be done in haste. One clarifying point is that I don't care for "intermediates" in the EMS chain. Either be a basic person or be a paramedic, and everyone should be a paramedic if you're going to be in EMS. I also think that a "paramedic" should rise at least half-way to being a P.A. That way, the "next level of training" in EMS would not be a leap, but just more technical, theoretical, and clinical education.
I guess my point was I'd like the EMT profession to be integrated into the medical profession, the medical schools, boards, etc. I'd like the EMTs to be able to go from First Responder, EMT Basic, EMT Paramedic, PA, MD - all with a specialization in emergency medicine.
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Bloom-IUEMT
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How about this:
You get your medic, attend college as an undergrad for 3 to 4 years and fulfill all the prereqs (General Biology, one year of general chemistry, one of organic chemistry, one year of physics, one or two semesters of Calculus, analytical chemisty, one year of english, maybe some molecular biology and biochemistry to help with MCAT).
Then you can miss the entire two weeks in med school that the paramedic skills are covered!
Finish med school- first two years of basic medicine-physiology, histology, microbiology, anatomy, pharmacology, pathology,immunology, neuroanatomy, embryology, biochemistry, statistics-pass your USMLE 1-then two more years with clinical rotations where you attend classes in the morning and spend afternoons learning basic clinical skills and assessments. Your rotations are Psychiatry, Ob/Gyn, Surgery, Neurology, Emergency, Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Pathology, Internal Medicine. Pass your USMLE 2 and hope you get into the residency program you want.
Then you spend 4 years of residency where you learn all aspects of Emergency Medicine. Classes, papers, long hours in the ER. I mean looooong hours like its not unusual to work 36 hours straight with no sleep. Then if you pass the board certification you can be an ER Doctor.
Hope I didn't offend anyone with the two weeks bit!----just wanted to drive home the point about physician education
You get your medic, attend college as an undergrad for 3 to 4 years and fulfill all the prereqs (General Biology, one year of general chemistry, one of organic chemistry, one year of physics, one or two semesters of Calculus, analytical chemisty, one year of english, maybe some molecular biology and biochemistry to help with MCAT).
Then you can miss the entire two weeks in med school that the paramedic skills are covered!
Finish med school- first two years of basic medicine-physiology, histology, microbiology, anatomy, pharmacology, pathology,immunology, neuroanatomy, embryology, biochemistry, statistics-pass your USMLE 1-then two more years with clinical rotations where you attend classes in the morning and spend afternoons learning basic clinical skills and assessments. Your rotations are Psychiatry, Ob/Gyn, Surgery, Neurology, Emergency, Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Pathology, Internal Medicine. Pass your USMLE 2 and hope you get into the residency program you want.
Then you spend 4 years of residency where you learn all aspects of Emergency Medicine. Classes, papers, long hours in the ER. I mean looooong hours like its not unusual to work 36 hours straight with no sleep. Then if you pass the board certification you can be an ER Doctor.
Hope I didn't offend anyone with the two weeks bit!----just wanted to drive home the point about physician education
JPINFV
Gadfly
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hahahaha..... hahhaahaha.
Ok, in magic fairytail land, what score on the MCAT (since even the BS/MD combined programs still require the MCAT) should be required for this 'program?'
Ok, in magic fairytail land, what score on the MCAT (since even the BS/MD combined programs still require the MCAT) should be required for this 'program?'